Gold chloride to metallic gold

[Yggdrasil]

So, you make an experiment without an assumption? I bet you hate that word
Anyway; can you explain why gold chloride cant be converted into metallic gold using lye-sugar method?

Because that is an reduction happening when certain chains in the sugar molecule are binding/stealing/(your words) to the Oxygen in the Silver Oxide, leaving Silver alone.
Both the Oxygen and the Sugar and the Silver are elements in this.
I guess that the Silver is acting as a Catalyst in this process, but I don't know.

With Gold Chloride you have no Oxygen and the Gold is way less prone to accelerate
a reduction process than Silver (once more a guess from me)

So now put your toys away and study.
First you read about safety.
Next you read about waste treatment.
Then you read The book on Torch assaying.
All this while reading Hokes book again.

 

[Martijn]

Because gold is a precious metal that can not be oxidized by lye as Silver Chloride can be. That black layer on silver: silver oxide. ever saw gold oxide? no, because it a precious metal.
Add sugar in a basic solution and you reduce the silver oxide to elemental form.
Gold may form a hydroxide in lye, not sure, but why would you want to?
There are more efficient and less messy ways to reduce gold chloride to elemental gold.
We have had many more beginners like you trying to change the ways things are done. First learn the basics, then choose your battle.

Study! listen to experienced members.

edited to add some words for clarity.

 

[Shakir]

Because that is an reduction happening when certain chains in the sugar molecule are binding/stealing/(your words) to the Oxygen in the Silver Oxide, leaving Silver alone.
Both the Oxygen and the Sugar and the Silver are elements in this.
I guess that the Silver is acting as a Catalyst in this process, but I don't know.

With Gold Chloride you have no Oxygen and the Gold is way less prone to accelerate
a reduction process than Silver (once more a guess from me)

So now put your toys away and study.
First you read about safety.
Next you read about waste treatment.
Then you read The book on Torch assaying.
All this while reading Hokes book again.

I like guessing, it converts thoughts into real tangible things, thank you for your efforts, and I promise to read that book.

 

[Shakir]

Because gold is a precious metal that can not be oxidized by lye as Silver Chloride can be. That black layer on silver: silver oxide. ever saw gold oxide? no, because it a precious metal.
Add sugar in a basic solution and you reduce the silver oxide to elemental form.
Gold may form a hydroxide in lye, not sure, but why would you want to?
There are more efficient and less messy ways to reduce gold chloride to elemental gold.
We have had many more beginners like you trying to change the ways things are done. First learn the basics, then choose your battle.

Study! listen to experienced members.

edited to add some words for clarity.

The reason I try lye-sugar method (besides having silver mixed with assumed gold chloride) is that I tried to melt precipitated gold chloride from another ore (where specks and fine gold are seen obviously) but got the same result, black slag … trying to find out why .. could be corrupted material i have? Bad acid?
By the way; some experts in my area are used to dealing with soils that have nothing obvious, and they get gold out of such ores,, I asked them why the precipitate gets black when melting, their answer was; it needs to be restored again by melting it with metallic silver or copper,, it is refined then the same way Hook suggested … but that doesnt work with me either .. secrets are there everywhere

 

[Yggdrasil]

I like guessing, it converts thoughts into real tangible things, thank you for your efforts, and I promise to read that book.

Guessing may be good, but not here. Here guessing may get you injured or worse.

Edit for spelling

 

[Yggdrasil]

The reason I try lye-sugar method (besides having silver mixed with assumed gold chloride) is that I tried to melt precipitated gold chloride from another ore (where specks and fine gold are seen obviously) but got the same result, black slag … trying to find out why .. could be corrupted material i have? Bad acid?
By the way; some experts in my area are used to dealing with soils that have nothing obvious, and they get gold out of such ores,, I asked them why the precipitate gets black when melting, their answer was; it needs to be restored again by melting it with metallic silver or copper,, it is refined then the same way Hook suggested … but that doesnt work with me either .. secrets are there everywhere

Gold Chloride do not precipitate, it is water soluble.
So you melted something else.
And the Gold specks you se are probably Pyrite or Mica.
If you manage to separate one small grain try to squeeze it and see how it looks.

 

[goldshark]

I like guessing, it converts thoughts into real tangible things, thank you for your efforts, and I promise to read that book.

Unless you like to spend money unnecessarily, reading is a lot cheaper, and less dangerous than experimenting with acids, in what environment, and where you do this at.
A geologist should be able to identify any minerals present in your rocks, start there.
Silver Chloride in rocks, does not require roasting, only sulfides.
There are numerous cheaper, less toxic techniques to convert, and concentrate the chlorides from the rock.
Read up on floatation, or the lixiviation types of concentration.
Once you have a concentrate, then read up on smelting.
Once you have a lump of metallic metal, then read up on how to refine it.
You have to crawl before walking, walk before you can run.
If you have a specific question, we will direct you to certain material located in the library. Your experience level here in the forum, tells us you have a lot to understand yet.
There is nothing in the library about geology, or ore treatments, so you will have to search else where for that. We deal with the refining of metallic metals.
You can direct smelt any ore, but has to be of a good enough tenor, to be worth the expense of doing so. This is why most people concentrate, prior to smelting.

 

[minero74]

Unless you like to spend money unnecessarily, reading is a lot cheaper, and less dangerous than experimenting with acids, in what environment, and where you do this at.
A geologist should be able to identify any minerals present in your rocks, start there.
Silver Chloride in rocks, does not require roasting, only sulfides.
There are numerous cheaper, less toxic techniques to convert, and concentrate the chlorides from the rock.
Read up on floatation, or the lixiviation types of concentration.
Once you have a concentrate, then read up on smelting.
Once you have a lump of metallic metal, then read up on how to refine it.
You have to crawl before walking, walk before you can run.
If you have a specific question, we will direct you to certain material located in the library. Your experience level here in the forum, tells us you have a lot to understand yet.
There is nothing in the library about geology, or ore treatments, so you will have to search else where for that. We deal with the refining of metallic metals.
You can direct smelt any ore, but has to be of a good enough tenor, to be worth the expense of doing so. This is why most people concentrate, prior to smelting.

It Totally agree.

Not all ore can be roasting,some ore contains arsenic.
and others Ore contains Mercury or both.
and some ore contains so many different minerals
that can be
very dangerous to roasting or smelting.

Like Goldshark said.
almost all the miners I have know
concentrate prior to smelting.

and different ore different process.
some ore is only crusher and panned.

to be a miner ,You must be smart and don’t trust anything.
when You lower your guard is when You can get hurt.

I have seen many peoples enter a mine
like they enter their own houses.
big mistake!.

For me,before enter a mine (i don’t like to enter inside a mine).
i check all the Surroundings.
i look for lose rocks,tree and any others object that can falls down.
any open pit.
I look for snake,black widow spiders,bats
Bears or any Mountain lions.

Yes ,sometimes they like to make their home at any abandoned mine.

any small details can be a very big problem.

is Not paranoia ,but never let your guard down.

learn from those who know their trade
many members of this forum are doing refining for years
they know what they are talking about it.

We must listen and be willing to learn.

 

[andu]

If I manage to dissolve gold foild with my hcl and bleach, will it cement on copper?

 

[Golddigger76]

Your gold foils should dissolve just fine.

Go easy when you add your bleach use small doses, like you should do when adding nitric to aqua regia and doing this with heat helps.


Just keep adding small amount of bleach until the foils dissolve.

After the foils are in solution continue heating for another hour or so to get rid of any excess chlorine.

You can cement the gold out with copper but smb with give you cleaner gold but gold cementing with copper can come out very well with the proper washing of your cemented gold powder.

Obviously doing a second refining is needed to get out the trace base metals from the original foils.

 

[Yggdrasil]

If I manage to dissolve gold foild with my hcl and bleach, will it cement on copper?

HCl and bleach are fine for foils and powders.
It need to be done cold and have a lid.
Be careful when adding and never more than a few drops at a time.
Since Bleach is a powerful alkali you need to check pH often so it do not get too high.
For cementing with Copper or any other metal for that matter it just needs to be sufficiently acidic.
Try to not get it much higher than 2-4 in pH

 

[GoIdman]

I`ve got dizzy while reading this post... intristing post though.

 

[kurtak]

I`ve got dizzy while reading this post... intristing post though.

Which "post" are you referring to?

Or are you referring to the whole "thread" ?

If the whole thread I agree

Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

Which "post" are you referring to?

Or are you referring to the whole "thread" ?

If the whole thread I agree

Kurt

I was going to ask too.
But I'm getting tired of nagging people to use the reply to button.

 

[GoIdman]

Which "post" are you referring to?

Or are you referring to the whole "thread" ?

If the whole thread I agree

Kurt

I was going to ask too.
But I'm getting tired of nagging people to use the reply to button.

Sorry for that, yes the whole thread...to be more specific... I have no idea why I wrote "post".. hm, getting old and insane I think.. )

Pete

 

[Moses]

HCl and bleach are fine for foils and powders.
It need to be done cold and have a lid.
Be careful when adding and never more than a few drops at a time.
Since Bleach is a powerful alkali you need to check pH often so it do not get too high.
For cementing with Copper or any other metal for that matter it just needs to be sufficiently acidic.
Try to not get it much higher than 2-4 in pH

your words are a lifesaver lol