gold coper silver alloy problem

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
The only problem I see in your pictures is, your not wearing GLOVES!

Please wear them, and eye protection, especially if your going to post pictures. Other people new to these process might get the wrong idea from pictures like that and hurt themselves.
 
Thank you for the reply Butcher, i guess there is an over excess of oxidizer in my Sol...
That is giving me problems ... here is the color of my AR Sol when sncl is introduce , one without light
And the other with light shine.
 
yes rickbb will do. thank you for reminding.

Butcher, here is the picture close up of my shallow test plate. it is like black violet and when i let shine on it is like burgandy violet i think its gold reacting with stannous.. am i right ? is this the violet purple reaction ?

another thing is when i leave the test plate for 10 seconds or more it goes back to the aqua regia color

you are right teling me i have free nitric, is dennoxing the only way to eliminate the free nitric? are there any optional method?

thanks a lot
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20140111_094812.jpg
    IMG_20140111_094812.jpg
    135.2 KB · Views: 378
  • IMG_20140111_094857.jpg
    IMG_20140111_094857.jpg
    206.3 KB · Views: 378
chemistrycoach,

It is hard for me to tell by the picture, but that looked like a beaker full of solution (not a few drops of solution in a spot plate), it also looks like you have something floating around in solution which almost looks like flakes of gold or something, that violet color does look like it can be the violet colloidal gold.

It looks to me as you do not have a spot plate, but have added stannous chloride to a considerable amount of your gold solution, this would tie up a lot of your gold in this solution (making it very difficult to recover the gold from it).

It only takes a few drops of the solution to test for values, this can be done in a spot plate or a white plastic spoon, or on a Q-tip or filter paper...

How much solution is in this Beaker (or what is it in the picture?), is this all of your solution you added the stannous chloride to, or is this just a portion of your original solution, what is that floating in solution?

I cannot see what you are doing, but something does not look right here.
 
Hi Butcher

yes i do not have a spot plate , i would get it tommorrow on my way home, i use a very shallow watch Glass
my AR solution is dirty because the metal i put in AR came from a dore bar, but i drilled the whole bar to get samples first like ribbons and get 100 grams of drillings and dissolved the base metals in 50/50 hot nitric acid, decanted it and the sponge black and browm ( i dont know how much it weighs ) i then dissolve in AR

it was a test to see if there is gold or platinum in the dore bar

this is the same material and different test i did and the result, i could not dennox because of a very large amount of AR in my beaker that might take me a long time to dennox it three times like hokes said.

the test i showed you is a few ml of AR and a few Ml of dissolve tin metal in hcl mix in a shallow plate and in a beaker

i know it is not right to waste gold chloride if the case maybe and i will never use this style of testing again

this is one of my personal projects doing smelting with gold ores

what concerns me is dennoxing my whole beaker maybe 250 ml of AR solution

i guess i use to many acid ( AR )
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20140112_011118.jpg
    IMG_20140112_011118.jpg
    51.1 KB · Views: 370
  • CAM04518.jpg
    CAM04518.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 370
Urea will neutralize nitric acid. Add until no more fizzing is observed, filter, and then drop.
 
You can do a couple of things to get rid of the free nitric acid, add gold and heat to use up the free nitric acid (Harold's trick), or use sulfamic acid, or the evaporation, or a combination of these.

I personally do not like Urea, and if you do suspect platinum using Urea could complicate its recovery.

You should be able to determine if you have gold or platinum with your spot plate tests, after De-NOxing the solution to be tested (you can use sulfamic acid to remove nitric from a small sample to be tested), (sometimes if the solution to be tested has a couple of metals that react to change color of the solution being tested it can be hard to tell, by using a spot plate you can test with a copperas crystal (ferrous sulfate), the gold if in solution will precipitate as brown ring around the copperas crystal, (this precipitates gold from the solution in this test, leaving the solution in this test barren of gold), then we can move the gold barren solution from this test to another well in the spot plate and test it with stannous chloride for platinum.

I thought you just had gold in solution, I did not know you were working with a Dore bar, how does your solution filter?
The solution does look dark, like there are other metals in solution, in the one picture I do see a dark yellow that does resemble gold in solution, but iron can also can look like gold in solution. It also looks concentrated, it is hard to tell what is in solution by just looking at it, that is where our testing helps us see what we really have.

Testing will be important, you need to learn to do it properly, otherwise you would still just be guessing.

The solution looks fairly concentrated, that is good for De-NOxing the solution.

But you will want to dilute and let it sit overnight (for silver or lead to settle),(a little sulfuric acid or sulfamic will help if lead is in solution), and filter before trying to precipitate your gold.
 
you are right butcher, i got a little solution and put it in a test tube then add ferrous sulphate crystals then at the bottom of the test tube i can see the ferrous sulphate crystal with a dark brown ring forming around it ( not in the center but forming around it )

you mentioned that base metals mix with gold in AR solution pushes the gold out of the sol..this probably is my case

when i dissolve base metals in 50/50 nitric, i felt it is never 100% that i cleaned it all out, traces of base metals may be in my sponge when i introduce it to AR

that is why i am saying that sometimes i dont get a violet result in stannous chloride testing when my solution is cold
it maybe because the gold ions had turned into metallic gold push out by traces of base metals in the sol

and when i try to heat it again the AR dissolves it back into the sol as ions giving me a positive violet reaction

the picture where you thought gold flakes floating around the AR sol when i introduce stannous may also be true

as this yellow particles shines back in camera flash ( i think metallic flakes reacts that way )

the gold maybe reducing and redissolving over and over again because of the traces of base metals

but i really took out base metals first using dilluted hot nitric acid, although some traces must have been left behind

the dore bar consist of copper and if there is gold or platinum group that maybe in there

that is why im posting pictures about my stannous chloride testings asking help about color reactions that im getting
from expert advice on our forum, before i process doing furthermore refining

i will follow advises to see reactions or non reactions

this is the picture of some yellow flakes floating in the test, some gold may be colloidal and some maybe starting to reduce, this things happen mixing us up as Butcher said complex base metals with precious metals in one same solution
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20140112_034547.jpg
    IMG_20140112_034547.jpg
    48.9 KB · Views: 345
Hi there again, i precipitated gold using copperas green crysrals dissolve in water
and Hcl
After the brown cloud i found feather like soft thin films of golden colored metals tiny bits
Of it.. it is metallic and yellow metals like really yellow golden color, i decant the spent solution after checking
In stannous and heat it again with 50/50 nitric but it only shines more and not affected
..does anybody has a same reaction i got when using ferrous sulphate? Thank you forumers and moderators !
 
Have you considered a fire assay? It is often the prefered method for testing complex dore. Metals that complicate wet testing can be reliably removed. If I'm not mistaken dore can be melted with fluxes that aid in the elimination process.
 
Thank you for your advice qst42know, i fire assayed a 50 gram drill sample of my dore bar and there is a 1 gram
silver bead that was inquarted with the lead, after that we go t
o cupelation today
Can i ask ? Can we test palladium in stannous chloride if it was dissolve in 50/50 nitric?
 
Hello everybody, just want to ask if palladium is dissolved in nitric acid can we
Test the presence using stannous chloride ?
 
Why not use DMG.

I believe you could test it with stannous chloride, (I have not tried it).
You could take a sample and drive off nitric with heat, add a little HCl, proceed to drive off remaining nitric from the sample and do the stannous test.

I suggest you get some DMG for palladium testing.
 
Adding HCl would precipitate silver chloride if silver is in solution (very possible), so you may need to transfer the solution to another well of the spot plate, or remove solution from the silver chloride, during your test.
 
yesterday i followed Butchers suggestion getting a few sample of the nitric acid that i suspect that there is palladium dissolved in it, had it evaporated to syrup twice adding HCL everytime , then tested it with stannous chloride the result is somewhat dark brown? so i tried to dillute a little sample in a little beaker and tried some cementation putting in a copper wire that was hammered flat just for a test, i dip it to the brown solution and waited for an hour and try to see what was going on by recovering the copper back, it did turn to something like blackish dark brown or black? i let it dry and look at it under microscope, i was surprised to see such many colors in magnification but in plain eyes view it was rather blackish, reminds me of leaf gliding with precious metal films or thin foils? can anybody here knows what am i seeing? why so many vivid colors attached to the copper in magnification? thank you very much guys!
 

Attachments

  • reacting.jpg
    reacting.jpg
    86.2 KB · Views: 222
  • solution.jpg
    solution.jpg
    146 KB · Views: 222
  • copper wire flattened.jpg
    copper wire flattened.jpg
    115.9 KB · Views: 222
  • dark copper wire.jpg
    dark copper wire.jpg
    75.5 KB · Views: 222
  • colors.jpg
    colors.jpg
    106.9 KB · Views: 222
this are the other pictures of te copper wire in magnification
 

Attachments

  • pink.jpg
    pink.jpg
    199.7 KB · Views: 221
  • rainbow colors.jpg
    rainbow colors.jpg
    192.7 KB · Views: 221
Back
Top