Gold will not drop

[ZiegenSauger]

For the very old extra thick memory cards, interfaces and other boards from >20 years ago one would bet 1.5 g per pound of the so called fingers of any kind.
Today, a very sound estimate is 1/10 (0.1g) of gold per pound.
For someone with decent control of the process, they would get 1g to 1.5 g of gold from 10 pounds of nowadays fingers.

Over the last 2 years, most of it was my education and practice, done everything and anything with all sorts of eWaste from today and from over two decades ago (like POGO pin connectors from the uber audio cables Monster Cables). Messed up a lot, lost considerable number of grams of gold but learned and now I can even recover quantities slightly under a gram of gold.

One thing I say: eWaste is worse than water mirage in Sahara. I would recommend to anyone to first accumulate, accumulate and accumulate. Second recover and store as much as you can of whatever is recover from A/P, diluted nitric, whatever. But stockpile a large volume, like a ham tupperware full of filter papers loaded with the solids AT LEAST.
This is the minimum to have some decent amount of gold (4-5 grams if you really had the patience to cut the pin tips only where the gold plate is present, clean and cut each pin of connectors, trim only the finger part of those amber color flex cables.
It is a humongous labor and a loooong time if you dont junkyard dive every week, but the only way to recover gold from eWaste.

I dare to say that for the experienced folks in the forum, eWaste is either just for fun or to eWaste time and resources.

 

[sleepyman1]

@ZiegenSauger and @cejohnsonsr1

Thanks for the info. I only started this because I could pretty easily get the RAM and some cards too. And for the experience and a little gold of course. I think I'll keep going though. I can keep getting RAM and other stuff with a little gold in it for free.

So it appears I have used WAY to much SMB. The SMB has formed crystals at the bottom of the jar. No brown sediment. Maybe the SMB crystals formed around the sediment. Don't know just guessing. What should I do to dissolve it, again, and get the gold out?

 

[cejohnsonsr1]

1st you really need to do a stanous test to see whether or not you actually have any gold in solution. If you have a layer of undissolved SMB on the bottom of the beaker, hold it up so you can see the bottom. Your gold should have settled before the SMB. But again, it's not going to be a lot. Just a brown smudge. If that's what you find, I'd just filter off the liquid and save the solids for when you have enough material to justify processing. If you're yield is under around 10 gr it's just not worth doing.

 

[sleepyman1]

Almost all of the liquid evaporated off. Had a bit left and did a stannous test. It showed light brown and then disappeared. What would be the best way to liquify the SMB and then somehow reveal the gold? Just dissolve in water again?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Almost all of the liquid evaporated off. Had a bit left and did a stannous test. It showed light brown and then disappeared. What would be the best way to liquify the SMB and then somehow reveal the gold? Just dissolve in water again?

Light brown is not Gold.

Gold gives strong purple going to pitch black depending on concentration, (purple of Cassius) is one of the old names.

Brown is what we call a false positive, too much smb or copper and so on will give brown.

 

[netgeek3]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but 10 lb of fingers is probably going to yield less 1 gr of gold. Depending upon how much solution you have it dissolved in, that's going to look like a smudge on the bottom of your beaker. I learned this the hard way about 10 years ago. Escrap just isn't worth the effort unless you're processing it by the ton. AP is good for getting the foils separated from the card stock. After that you really need to process with distilled water and Nitric 1st to remove any silver and base metals. A couple of drops of Sulfuric at this point will precipitate any lead. Then Hydrochloric and Nitric to dissolve the gold. Complete and thorough rinsing between processes is absolutely necessary.

I hate to start an argument here, but so long as nothing has been disposed of, you actually should have some gold. In fact, 10lbs of fingers should produce anywhere from 10 to 20 grams of gold, depending on how well plated they were. Our yields are typically in the 1.5g/lb. range, and I know that Sree has shown in his videos that he is getting up to 1.86g/lb. and OG Bullion has shown 1.31g/lb. so your yield should certainly surpass 1g for the entire 10lb. process. I do agree with the process above, and one of the things to consider is the age of the materials you are dealing with, as processes have changed over time. Many boards have a fair amount of nickel sitting between the copper and the gold, and you definitely want to get that out of the way.

Anyway, my $.02 worth.

 

[sleepyman1]

@Yggdrasil

I definitely used too much SMB. WAY too much. I think that fouled up the whole process. The crystalized SMB does have some green to it, so that means copper I guess.

@netgeek3

WOW! This gives me hope! What would you do in my situation? Thanks.

 

[cejohnsonsr1]

I hate to start an argument here, but so long as nothing has been disposed of, you actually should have some gold. In fact, 10lbs of fingers should produce anywhere from 10 to 20 grams of gold, depending on how well plated they were. Our yields are typically in the 1.5g/lb. range, and I know that Sree has shown in his videos that he is getting up to 1.86g/lb. and OG Bullion has shown 1.31g/lb. so your yield should certainly surpass 1g for the entire 10lb. process. I do agree with the process above, and one of the things to consider is the age of the materials you are dealing with, as processes have changed over time. Many boards have a fair amount of nickel sitting between the copper and the gold, and you definitely want to get that out of the way.

Anyway, my $.02 worth.

If you were referring to sreetips, that was pins. Not fingers. His yield was a little over 22 gr but he paid $1k for the pins and used about 4 gallons of Nitric. Fingers are nearly all PCB. The gold is plated over copper (mostly) in a layer only a few atoms thick. Older material is a little better, but not by much.

 

[lazersteve]

If you were referring to sreetips, that was pins. Not fingers. His yield was a little over 22 gr but he paid $1k for the pins and used about 4 gallons of Nitric. Fingers are nearly all PCB. The gold is plated over copper (mostly) in a layer only a few atoms thick. Older material is a little better, but not by much.

You may be looking at trace Pd...pd plus SO2 can show brown. If you have DMG I would advise testing for Pd after boiling the solution to drive out any SO2.

 

[ZiegenSauger]

I second everything here. There is one point though: I have been in this very same seat not long ago. Even the quantities and steps are similar. I assume that some of my mistakes could be in there too.
All that was said to me is already brilliantly posted above by other forum members, I have one thing I want to be hardheaded on:
Where I am at today, under the very same scenario, I dare to say I would've been successful recovering gold.
Remember that eScrap is very deceiving. Initial information state 10 lbs of fingers, those ones from 15~20 years ago.
Let's assume the bulk of them is from, say, 10~15 years ago. It was impossible for me to successfully recover because of anxiety, gold fever, missteps, wrong steps, unbalanced amounts, indiscipline, among many other things.
I am not anyhow trying to imply that @sleepyman1 is committing some or any of my own mistakes at all. The thing is forum colleagues called me out on that several, and I mean, SEVERAL times and I did not want to see.

Today I recover (at least) some of the gold in the original eScrap batch from filter papers, overflow wipes and cardboard, stock pot.

Today I can even extract amounts <0.1g decently well thnx for the forum, there is A LOT of great things here and A LOT of great guys here willing to help.

My apologies y'all, I know this post is already obnoxious but from the bottom of my heart: @sleepyman1 please halt (Achtung in mother tongue). Lay back and review everything you did, every step you took. The gold is there. Could be in filter papers, could be at the bottom of waste buckets, could be as solids, and everything in between inside your shop.

My recommendation to you would be:
(1) Pour all liquids in buckets
(2) Calculate the total volume
(3) Drop pure copper (pipes, stripes, really anything pure copper)
(4) Set aside
(5) If you have an aquarium bubbling device, set it up to keep the solution moving
(6) If not, just use something safe (like a wooden mop handler) to mix the bucket(s) twice a day at least
(7) After 2 weeks (to be safe), syphon out the liquids
(8) Collect all the solids
(9) Start all over

From the point you are and further, the mess will only pile up. You will not learn and you will lose more.

Cheers mate

 

[Geo]

Cement everything on aluminum foil and start over without adding excess oxidizer. By now you have painted yourself into a corner.

 

[sleepyman1]

I second everything here. There is one point though: I have been in this very same seat not long ago. Even the quantities and steps are similar. I assume that some of my mistakes could be in there too.
All that was said to me is already brilliantly posted above by other forum members, I have one thing I want to be hardheaded on:
Where I am at today, under the very same scenario, I dare to say I would've been successful recovering gold.
Remember that eScrap is very deceiving. Initial information state 10 lbs of fingers, those ones from 15~20 years ago.
Let's assume the bulk of them is from, say, 10~15 years ago. It was impossible for me to successfully recover because of anxiety, gold fever, missteps, wrong steps, unbalanced amounts, indiscipline, among many other things.
I am not anyhow trying to imply that @sleepyman1 is committing some or any of my own mistakes at all. The thing is forum colleagues called me out on that several, and I mean, SEVERAL times and I did not want to see.

Today I recover (at least) some of the gold in the original eScrap batch from filter papers, overflow wipes and cardboard, stock pot.

Today I can even extract amounts <0.1g decently well thnx for the forum, there is A LOT of great things here and A LOT of great guys here willing to help.

My apologies y'all, I know this post is already obnoxious but from the bottom of my heart: @sleepyman1 please halt (Achtung in mother tongue). Lay back and review everything you did, every step you took. The gold is there. Could be in filter papers, could be at the bottom of waste buckets, could be as solids, and everything in between inside your shop.

My recommendation to you would be:
(1) Pour all liquids in buckets
(2) Calculate the total volume
(3) Drop pure copper (pipes, stripes, really anything pure copper)
(4) Set aside
(5) If you have an aquarium bubbling device, set it up to keep the solution moving
(6) If not, just use something safe (like a wooden mop handler) to mix the bucket(s) twice a day at least
(7) After 2 weeks (to be safe), syphon out the liquids
(8) Collect all the solids
(9) Start all over

From the point you are and further, the mess will only pile up. You will not learn and you will lose more.

Cheers mate

Thanks friend! Here is what I'm going to do this weekend. Please correct me if I'm making a mistake in any step.

1. Put all remaining liquid back in the jar and calculate volume.
2. Put copper in the liquid.
3. Set aside and add air bubbles.
4. Stir daily just encase the bubbles aren't enough to move it. I'm using a glass rod.
5. Decant the liquids from the solids after 2 weeks.
6. Collect the solids.

Now, questions.

Does it matter how much copper?

When you say start over, do you mean put the solids back into a HCL chlorine solution to dissolve it again then add a pinch of SMB to get it to drop? Or, are the solids that dropped from the copper step the gold itself? Please clarify.

What should I do with the SMB crystals that formed at the bottom of the jar in my earlier attempt?

Should I use heat in the above steps?

May I ask you to keep an eye on this thread please. I'll post updates. I'll need input because I don't want to screw up AGAIN!

Thanks very much!

 

[Geo]

Overuse of hypochlorite will effect the gold drop. Sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) decomposes at 214°F and water boils at 212°F. Unless the solution reaches 214°F for an extended time, you are not destroying the excess hypochlorite and it is being released at the rate that chlorine gas escapes the solution. The solution becomes saturated with chlorine when you first add the bleach, assuming you are being over generous with your additions. Heating the solution helps drive out the chlorine gas but unless it reaches 214°F for an extended period of time, you are not destroying the excess hypochlorite but just driving off the excess chlorine gas in solution. If you let it cool too soon, more hypochlorite decomposes and saturates the solution again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite

 

[sleepyman1]

Just to update.

Volume of the solution is .5 gallons.
Put 6 feet of 10 AWG copper wire in it. Copper instantly went from shiny to dull.
Added air pump to flow air through the solution.

So now wait for 2 weeks. Stirring daily.

 

[ZiegenSauger]

Wonder how are you doing now? Any success?

 

[sleepyman1]

The copper completely dissolved. Nothing at the bottom. I'm going to try boiling away the chlorine like Geo said.

 

[Elemental]

Did you use a stannous test to confirm the gold is in solution? What is the pH of your solution now? Geo had mentioned cementing everything out with aluminum, have you given thought to that? Now that you’ve added more copper, you’ll have all it cement out now too. I’m curious what’s going to happen after you now boil off the hypochlorite. You have a lot of metal in just a few liters of water. You may get some crystals depending on saturation and solubility of your metal salts when it cools. Please keep us updated.

Question: Does a stannous test work with a hypochlorite solution?

 

[Yggdrasil]

I think stannous works best in acidic conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So if you have added too much hypochlorite, your solution may have too high Ph for both SMB and stannous to work.
Definitely for the solution to dissolve Gold in the first place.

The HCl/hypochlorite process is very delicate in that manner, it is very easy to overshoot and add too much hypochlorite and thus neutralize the HCl and killing the process.

Try to add some more HCl and see again.

Regards Per-Ove

 

[sleepyman1]

Did you use a stannous test to confirm the gold is in solution? What is the pH of your solution now? Geo had mentioned cementing everything out with aluminum, have you given thought to that? Now that you’ve added more copper, you’ll have all it cement out now too. I’m curious what’s going to happen after you now boil off the hypochlorite. You have a lot of metal in just a few liters of water. You may get some crystals depending on saturation and solubility of your metal salts when it cools. Please keep us updated.

Question: Does a stannous test work with a hypochlorite solution?

I'll test tomorrow the pH and the stannous. It has lost almost all of its HCl smell. You mention crystals, during the copper addition process there were some light green crystals that formed on the container above the liquid. What should I do with those? Are they worthless?

Could you describe how to do the aluminum cementing process. I've never done that before. Should I do that or boil it down?

 

[sleepyman1]

I think stannous works best in acidic conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So if you have added too much hypochlorite, your solution may have too high Ph for both SMB and stannous to work.
Definitely for the solution to dissolve Gold in the first place.

The HCl/hypochlorite process is very delicate in that manner, it is very easy to overshoot and add too much hypochlorite and thus neutralize the HCl and killing the process.

Try to add some more HCl and see again.

Regards Per-Ove

Should I do boil down first or add more HCl first and see what happens. If I should add more HCl, how much you suggest?