Gold will not drop

[Yggdrasil]

Should I do boil down first or add more HCl first and see what happens. If I should add more HCl, how much you suggest?

Just add enough to make sure it is acidic.

 

[Ray Levi]

For the very old extra thick memory cards, interfaces and other boards from >20 years ago one would bet 1.5 g per pound of the so called fingers of any kind.
Today, a very sound estimate is 1/10 (0.1g) of gold per pound.
For someone with decent control of the process, they would get 1g to 1.5 g of gold from 10 pounds of nowadays fingers.

Over the last 2 years, most of it was my education and practice, done everything and anything with all sorts of eWaste from today and from over two decades ago (like POGO pin connectors from the uber audio cables Monster Cables). Messed up a lot, lost considerable number of grams of gold but learned and now I can even recover quantities slightly under a gram of gold.

One thing I say: eWaste is worse than water mirage in Sahara. I would recommend to anyone to first accumulate, accumulate and accumulate. Second recover and store as much as you can of whatever is recover from A/P, diluted nitric, whatever. But stockpile a large volume, like a ham tupperware full of filter papers loaded with the solids AT LEAST.
This is the minimum to have some decent amount of gold (4-5 grams if you really had the patience to cut the pin tips only where the gold plate is present, clean and cut each pin of connectors, trim only the finger part of those amber color flex cables.
It is a humongous labor and a loooong time if you dont junkyard dive every week, but the only way to recover gold from eWaste.

I dare to say that for the experienced folks in the forum, eWaste is either just for fun or to eWaste time and resources.

Try this inexpensive complete kit .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JSP-gold-r...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I can buy everything for less at the hardware store.

Dave

 

[butcher]

Leoesch,
You have been spamming your wares, and not adding anything of value to the board, if you continue your stay here on the forum will be short.
See the forum rules, you can post your wares in the for sell section if they are related to recovery or refining, but not try to sell your stuff or profit from every conversation.

PS your lucky I have not already hit the ban button as yet.

 

[orvi]

30 USD for overall few dollars worth of chemicals. Not a single kilo of extremely cheap stuff. Wow. So much added value.
But I am curious what urea-aqua regia is... hopefully it isn´t mixed together

 

[Elemental]

Are we making this: Urea nitrate - Wikipedia or perhaps this: Nitrourea - Wikipedia ? Time to pull out the organic chemistry textbook! I love the smell of gold refining and high explosives in the morning!

 

[sleepyman1]

I just discovered that my pH strips are expired. That could have been giving me false readings all along. I'm getting more tomorrow. The stannous test shows dark brown. According to the label on the bottle, that means gold.

 

[butcher]

Dark brown does not mean you have gold in solution it would be more of an indication of copper or a brown color from the copper reduction from a reaction with the stannous chloride from overuse of SMB.
Gold would be violet or purple to blackish if very concentrated (which becomes violet when diluted).
.

 

[orvi]

Are we making this: Urea nitrate - Wikipedia or perhaps this: Nitrourea - Wikipedia ? Time to pull out the organic chemistry textbook! I love the smell of gold refining and high explosives in the morning!

More possibly the nitrate salt. Nitrourea requires some heating and more concentrated nitric. But in aqua regia, nitrosyl chloride and chlorine forms not a good combination with urea either. Not to mention that formed chlorourea stuff is quite nasty, toxic and possibly carcinogenic.

Some interesting information i just stumbled across:


So, in the pathaway of decay urea creates numerous funky intermediates such as N-chlorourea, NCl3 (yeah), chloramines and finally goes to the NITRATE trying to destroy nitrate with it, and you will end up with some more nitrate

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/es102423u

 

[sleepyman1]

My new pH strips shows that the solution is a 2, so it's still acidic. What's the next step I should take?

 

[The Devils Dog]

If you think it’s possibly “hot” as in high ph evaporation and fresh H2O after the evaporation
1.Solution as is will be taken to whatever heating equipment you are using for evaporation to precipitate residues left behind

2.Powders/salts will be rehydrated with fresh distilled H2O

3. Retest if solution is still hot run the process again until it’s ph has come to the level your looking to obtain

 

[sleepyman1]

OK, I let the solution boil away. What I have left is in the photos. A green substance that looks and feels like sand. A solid dense substance that was underneath the sand substance, and a black substance at the top of the the solid material in the photo. What is all of this? What should I do with each one now?

 

[goldshark]

Just curious about the source of your scrap. Here is the reason. Last summer, a bunch of gypsies claiming to be from Dubai, were all over Colorado. They had a song and dance about getting their ID's and money stolen, but they had a bunch of jewelry stamped 14k + 18K. They sold it for 1/2 of spot. Problem was, there is absolutely no gold in it. It assayed something like 70% Copper, rest Tin, Zinc, and to give it a high specific gravity, Actinium. When put in Nitric, the stuff practically explodes, it is so reactive. A lot of people got suckered by these a--holes. The residue looks just like what you have, hence the question about the source stock.

 

[Martijn]

If you think it’s possibly “hot” as in high ph evaporation and fresh H2O after the evaporation
1.Solution as is will be taken to whatever heating equipment you are using for evaporation to precipitate residues left behind

2.Powders/salts will be rehydrated with fresh distilled H2O

3. Retest if solution is still hot run the process again until it’s ph has come to the level your looking to obtain

Your post makes no sense to me. Why evaporate and rehydrate? How is hot high pH?

 

[Yggdrasil]

If you think it’s possibly “hot” as in high ph evaporation and fresh H2O after the evaporation
1.Solution as is will be taken to whatever heating equipment you are using for evaporation to precipitate residues left behind

2.Powders/salts will be rehydrated with fresh distilled H2O

3. Retest if solution is still hot run the process again until it’s ph has come to the level your looking to obtain

This makes no sense.
Heat has nothing with ph to do.
If the ph is too high, closing to past 5 or above you will form hydroxides and any SMB will not work.

 

[Martijn]

Sleepyman, this thread has turned into something too confusing and possibly dangerous for you imo.

There has been advised to 'boil off' the oxidizer, chloride from the bleech since cementing did not work.

Bleech is broken down in solution, and faster under heat. You don't need to evaporate it all down to salts.
Just heating it and let a part evaporate off to get rid of the chlorine will do.
Even just adfing water and leaving it to the open air will eventually break down the bleech.

Then cement it all out on copper. Try with a small piece first to see if any metals are cemented out or if the copper dissolves along with the cemented metals.

If so, evaporate a bit more. If not, add copper and air and knock the cement off the copper every now and then to see if new cement forms. If not, take out the copper, decant and transfer to the stockpot and rinse and collect the cement.

You can also test a drop with stannous to see if the pm's will redissolve or not. Again an indicator for free oxidizer in solution.

I dont think you have to expect al lot of pgm's in this ram foil batch. So let the stockpot deal with that.

But boiling down a solution with excess of bleech may not have been the best advise you've been given.

From wikipedia:
"Sodium hypochlorite (commonly known in a dilute solution as bleach) is a chemical compound with the formula NaOCl or NaClO, comprising a sodium cation (Na+
) and a hypochlorite anion (OCl−
or ClO−
). It may also be viewed as the sodium salt of hypochlorous acid. The anhydrous compound is unstable and may decompose explosively.[2][3] It can be crystallized as a pentahydrate NaOCl·5H
2O, a pale greenish-yellow solid which is not explosive and is stable if kept refrigerated"

Looking at the color of your salts, I'm a bit concerned.
So because you have added that much bleech that you may have created an unstable compound, I would advise to get the crystals wet ASAP, see what dissolves and measure pH. If pH is high, (above 7) you still have bleech and need to acidify. SMB is Ph 4.6 in solution. Bleech is between 11 and 13.
You have made quite a mess.

Then cement and start over.

Have you studied and do you understand how to deal with waste?

Martijn.

 

[kurtak]

Today is the first time I have looked at this thread - AND OMG - I can't believe what I am reading

This thread has been going on for two months now & NOTHING has been solved - other then one mess after another

This is in LARGE PART because sleepyman1 has absolutely NO clue what he is doing - as a result he has followed advice (both good & BAD) without FULLY understanding what that advice is

Sleepyman1 --- you NEED to SLOW way down & FULLY understand what you are doing before you move forward

This thread has gone so far off the hook (after two months) it is now beyond repair to go back to what coulda/shoulda been done

That said - at this point -----

Looking at the color of your salts, I'm a bit concerned.
So because you have added that much bleech that you may have created an unstable compound, I would advise to get the crystals wet ASAP, see what dissolves and measure pH. If pH is high, (above 7) you still have bleech and need to acidify. SMB is Ph 4.6 in solution. Bleech is between 11 and 13.
You have made quite a mess.

Per the bold print this is VERY good advice - you very well may have (or not) made some explosive compounds

For what it is worth - the green crystals would likely work for making the colored stars in fireworks - but that's another story

The point being - at this point - you NEED to TRY to redissolve those crystals with warm/hot water (they may or not be water soluble) so try that first

To clarify - based on your last pictures - you have three different solids from over evaporating you solution which for the most part you have been able to separate --- "try" dissolve "each one" of those solids "on there own"

do not try to dissolve them all together

Why ?

the BLACK is likely a combination of copper & gold (actual copper & gold) as well as "other" chemical "salts" so hot water MAY be able to dissolve the "salt" allowing the copper &/or gold to settle out as copper/gold powders in the bottom of your beaker --- without actually being there to see what you have - I am betting the black solids is where much (but not all) of your copper/gold is - so -----

Start by putting the black stuff in a beaker with HOT water & see if the hot water starts dissolving the "salts" allowing copper/gold to flake off & settle in the bottom of the beaker - START with that & lets see what happens

In other words "start" with just hot water & see if it starts dissolving salt leaving behind copper/gold --- IF (the BIF IF) some of that black stuff is so hard/solid that hot water alone is having trouble dissolving the salt out - turn it up to a SIMMER boil - but no more then a simmering boil - try that & lets see what happens

The green sand like crystals - again start with some hot water & lets see what happens - hopefully it dissolves - this stuff should dissolve with just hot water (no need to simmer boil) if it doesn't get back to us & we will go from there

Again - the black in these crystals MAY (or not) be some of your copper/gold

The hard/solid stuff (blue/green) - thatis going to be more difficult to dissolve simple because of it's hard density - so again start with hot water - if it's dissolving the salts - but having a hard time doing so - turn it up to a simmer boil - it may take "time & you may need to add water to make up for evaporation until it's all dissolved

IF - (the BIG IF) hot water dissolves the salts (in those three experments) - STOP at that point & we will work on testing those solutions &/or looking at what does not dissolve

But lets start with what does - or not dissolve with hot water

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Stannous test is dark brown. Which means gold is there correct?

A stannous test for gold is NEVER BROWN

Nope. Dark brown means you probably used too much SMB. Dark brown is often called a false positive, but gold tests as purple to black, not brown.

Dave

What Dave said !!!

The Stannous bottle has a label on it that is color coded. The Au column has purple and brown. The purple is labeled low concentration and the brown is high concentration. ????

I don't care what the color code on your stannous bottle says - a positive stannous test for gold is ALWAYS purple - when it is "high concentration" gold it will be so purple that it will look (almost) black - in other words black with a purple tinge/hew to the black

Whoever you are getting your stannous from does not know what they are talking about because a stannous test for gold is NEVER BROWN

The stannous test shows dark brown. According to the label on the bottle, that means gold.

Per the bold print - WRONG - a stannous test for gold is NEVER BROWN

Dark brown does not mean you have gold in solution it would be more of an indication of copper or a brown color from the copper reduction from a reaction with the stannous chloride from overuse of SMB.
Gold would be violet or purple to blackish if very concentrated (which becomes violet when diluted)

What butcher said - A stannous test (low concentration) for gold will be violet to purple & in (high concentration) will be so purple that it looks PUPLE/BLACKISH --- NEVER BROWN

Do yourself a favor - stop buying your stannous already made up from someone that clearly does not know what the hell they are talking about - they are leading you down the wrong path

You can make your own stannous --- go to the hardware store - buy some solder that is 95% tin 5% antimony

Cut the solder (a few grams) into small pieces - add a few ml of HCl - the HCL will dissolve the tin - the antimony does not dissolve so will settle out as a black powder - you now have your stannous for testing with

if all the solder dissolves (with the HCl) add a bit more solder until the solder no longer dissolves so that the HCl is completely saturated with tin (wont dissolve more tin) --- store your home made stannous in a small bottle with a lid/cap on it so air doesn't get to it & it should last a long time before it goes bad - you know when it's gone bad because you will see a white solid precipitate forming in the bottom of the bottle - the white precipitate mean the tin is oxidizing out of the stannous (caused by exposure to air)

so until &/or as long as you don't see that white precipitate forming in the stannous it's good to go for testing with

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but 10 lb of fingers is probably going to yield less 1 gr of gold.

That is so absolutely wrong it is in fact false information

Depending on the fingers - (ram fingers - fingers from cards - or a mix) you should get a bare minimum of a gram per pound & more then likely between 1.5 to 2 grams & that is from modern day fingers

Older fingers can even run as high as 3 - 5 grams per pound

If all you got was less then a gram from 10 pounds of fingers - you did something VERY wrong & you lost MOST of your gold

For the very old extra thick memory cards, interfaces and other boards from >20 years ago one would bet 1.5 g per pound of the so called fingers of any kind.
Today, a very sound estimate is 1/10 (0.1g) of gold per pound.
For someone with decent control of the process, they would get 1g to 1.5 g of gold from 10 pounds of nowadays fingers.

Again - absolutely wrong - from modern day fingers you should get "at least" 1 gram per pound if not 1.5 grams per pound

If all you are getting is 1 - 1.5 grams per 10 pounds you are doing something VERY wrong & loosing MOST of your gold

Concerning the older stuff (fingers) it is not uncommon to see them run as high as 2.5 - 3 grams per pound & I have even seen (though less common) some stuff (fingers) run as high as 5 grams per pound

Same thing with old pins - they can & will run 3 - 5 grams per pound - I have seen old pins plated so heavy that the acid has a hard time getting to the base metal to dissolve the base metal away - in fact the plating can be so thick - that once the base metal is dissolved away - the gold foils will hold their shape & look just like the pins before the base metals are dissolved away

I dare to say that for the experienced folks in the forum, eWaste is either just for fun or to eWaste time and resources.

As an "experienced" refiner - running LARGE batches of fingers & pins - for 10 years - as a living --- I will gladly buy ALL of your fingers & pins (provided the pins are fully plated) based on the numbers you are providing

In other words - based on 1 - 1.5 grams per 10 pounds - I will pay (gladly) the high end of 1.5 grams per 10 pounds

Kurt

 

[Martijn]

Kurt, thank you for debunking all that disinfo.

A piece of advice to new members: click on the members logo. How long ago he signed up is an indication for his level of experience. Not always, but generally speaking so.

And giving advice is very tempting once you have studied a bit and gained some experience, but be sure you fully understand the problem at hand. Look at the compounds and do some research. You'll learn more from that than you think.