HCL and Nitric???

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jdgabbard

New member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Messages
2
Ok, I'm a noob. And yes I do know where to go and look for the chemicals. I have found them. And don't really need the information on that. But it is related to them, so I'm going to post this here.

Is there any kind of licensing that goes along with these, here in the good 'ole US of A that is??? Bottom line is that I would hate to order some of this stuff and have the men in black show up at my front door to tear through my home. I'm just looking for the legalities of ordering/owning and trying to find out what I need to do on my end to stay legal.
 
both nitric acid and hcl acid is legal to own and possess.these chemicals are traded freely without restrictions or prohibitions.the restrictions is the transportation of these chemicals and any carrier would have that information.as far as you going and buying the chemicals first hand there should be no restrictions on the transaction unless special containers must be provided by you.hcl acid can be purchased in any hardware store, look for muriatic acid.theres really no reason to need a concentration higher than this unless your doing a commercial refining operation.nitric acid can be purchased from most large chemical supply companies right from the dock.
 
jdgabbard,
The chemicals I use to recover and refine with are legal for me to purchase, and use in a proper manner, this is a free country, (last time I heard): lol:

I heard it was illegal for the normal guy to buy lab glass in Texas (what the HILL happened to Texas?), so check on your local laws.

a simple thing of buying glass beakers could put you in the spotlight.

Now it is not the chemicals, or glass I have, but what I use them for, similar to me owning a gun, I can buy a gun legally, and carry and use it legally, but if I used the gun in an illegal manor then I lose my rights to the freedom I have.

This is not to say that buying these chemicals would not raise eyebrows, from those who I bought them from or from the officials, take something like iodine, I bought gallons of this for years, to treat thrush on horse's hooves, now when I go to the feed store to buy a gallon, I have to show drivers license, vehicle registration and social security number, they put this information on a list for the officials to reveiw, that I had bought this product, the same product as kids we would have put on our skinned knees, the druggies have made this a watched item, so yes authorities may come to find out what I am doing with iodine, so here I would have the burden to prove I had it for legal use (horses or gold recovery), even buying common fertilizer you can raise eyebrows, so keeping your ducks in a row is important, many of the chemicals you may buy for refining and recovery could be used for illegitimate reasons so you never know when you may have to explain your use of them.

Also say someone sees all of my jars of colored liquids and fuming pots, 5 gallon buckets, me outside in freezing weather late at night in the woods on my property cooking something with a flashlight in my mouth, they may think one thing that my lab is of illegal use (when in reality it is legal) so they may call the sheriff and report seeing a drug lab in action, well I could get a visit,

Say your in town and dissolving silver in your back yard and the old lady neighbor sees you making a red cloud of smoke coming from something your mixing with lab glass and she smells this awful smell (you could expect to have to talk to somebody).

Keep your ducks in a row and you should have no trouble, learn about the chemicals you use, how to use them safely and do use them safe, keep MSDS, store properly and so on.

Wastes from these can also be a big issue, study dealing with them, and treat them properly, here again these can put you under the microscope, and when DEQ, EPA, and others come to see what your up to, have your ducks in a row and your cards face up on the table.

For your safety and for others safety.

Also study the chemistry of refining and recovery many things can make dangerous poisonous gases, or you have dangers of making something (you may be unaware of that could blow up in your face), or poison your water supply or put your neighbor in the hospitals or worse.

I do not mean to scare you, but feel you should see the reality and responsibility we have with what we do.

Ugly truth chemistry today is looked on as something done for illegal purposes unless you’re some big drug chemical company,

Chemistry I feel is really not taught in our schools as it was before,(sad we are loosing our knowledge in this country, forgetting the old ways and what made this country what it once was).
I would bet kids really get very little actual experience with chemicals or the reactions, in school chemistry, and then some of the more smart kids try to learn on their own from the web, and boys being boys want to play with the dangerous stuff (I see this as very dangerous and sad).
like kids who are taught to fear guns not being raised around them (I see this as being very dangerous, the kid has no respect for them and can get hurt if he finds one, Kids who are raised with and learn to resect what the gun will do and know how to use it is much safer with them).

I have asked questions about chemistry or chemicals to people who have worked in hospital labs for 30 years, they would tell me they learned that in high school or college, but do not remember much about it, they just run large machines that do the lab work and run the tests, they do not even mix reagents like they did years ago (just load the machine with these chemicals, there job has become looking for numbers on the computer print out and record results, or looking at the reactions the machine produces and record results, they do very little actual chemistry compared to what they did years ago, today computers and machines do it,

To me this is sad result of our modern technology; we are loosing our knowledge of how to do many things,
Just like many people do not know meat they eat comes from an animal that must die to feed them, and some say it is bad to eat an animal (but they fail to see the tomatoes has to die to feed them), I say poor tomatoes, silly person would not live long if they did not eat anything with life in it.

Many people do not have an understanding of the chemicals they use every day like the wife cleaning the window she thinks she needs some fancy chemical sold by a company for a high price, and it has to be blue, so she pays good money for plain ammonia with coloring and scented, she could buy for pennies.

Oops seems like I got on a soap box.
 
Butcher, and Geo, thank you both for the speedy replies. I appreciate the information, and Geo I also appreciate the warnings.

I'm well aware of the potential for the safety of myself, others around me, and the issues with waste. Luckily, I live not but 5 miles from a waste station which does deal with chemicals.

You mentioning the glasswear in texas brings up a point. I do live in oklahoma, a meth is a real issue in my part of the state. Purchasing something like that could truly raise some eyebrows. However, I think if they were ordered from lets say Ebay or Amazon that it might not be cause for any concern. The things that makes me most nervous is the chemicals. I used to live next door to a member of the local DA's drug enforment task force who worked hand in hand with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation and the BATFE. And you're right, any chemistry in this area of the woods equates to something illegal. It is very sad.
 
Chemistry is looked upon with suspicion everywhere. It somehow eludes the people of dull intelligence, small-minded suspiciousness and vapid imaginations that it could be done 1) for fun, 2) for knowledge, 3) as a legitimate activity or, 4) as something that is none of their damned business.

Ignorance is rampant in the US. Even newspapers routinely screw up nearly ever time they give a "technical" fact. Your average citizen has the technical knowledge of a grade school child. I shake my head and just think to myself..."There, but for the grace of God, go I"

I became a professional chemist largely because of a chemistry set I got at age 9. Ever seen a "chemistry" set these days? Utterly pathetic, just wretched. Whereas I played with chlorine, made rayon, experienced H2S (believe it or not, not a single acquaintance or family member was fatally burned or poisoned..."how can that be?" the undereducated ask themselves), kids today take off their little plastic helmets and kneepads from riding their bikes home from the playground filled with pathetic 6 foot high plastic gym sets and open their chemistry sets to explore the intricate scientific mysteries behind recrystallizing salt! Now, there's a basis for stimulating scientific curiosity!! We are protecting our little darlings so they can grow up sheltered and dim. Bravo!

As my valid comment on the home scientist's plight, I'd suggest that you can do everything right, store things correctly, dispose of things correctly and it's STILL no guarantee of anything. Trouble can arrive out of the blue based on observations by the scientifically oblivious. I'm glad I'm nearly 60. By the time I die, today's collection of predominately dim-witted bureaucrats will have outlawed and vilified everything about home scientists. I've watched as this country has spiraled into ignorance and suspicion. Do YOU think it's going to improve? I don't either. Nobody wants to be the pol labeled "soft on..." anything. There is a massive class of frightened, ignorant true Americans that won't let logical thought intrude upon their beliefs.

HazMat inspectors? There are no PhD's among them...or masters degrees holders either. In fact, a 4 year degree is enough and often they just let you substitute "work experience" for a degree. They don't have a deep understanding of chemistry. Yet you are completely at their mercy. Do what you can to stay off their radar. You'll never win an argument and it will cost you big time. I put a lot of effort into doing things right. I've had in depth safety training at Praxair, I store incompatible chemicals separately, I store my chemicals (mostly inorganic reagents, acids, bases) in several locked metal OSHA-approved enclosures (quite expensive even used), hazardous stuff never goes down the drain, I have MSDSs for everything and I have a full range of protective equipment and yet this is no guarantee. If a HazMat team comes in, even if they find no actionable problems, you will be billed. What's the difference between a huge bill for unnecessary inspection and a huge fine? In a practical sense, nothing.

As a final comment, I was in the Home Despot looking for sodium hydroxide. As I was looking through the drain cleaners all I could find was the undesirable "Draino" brand with its added Al chips. A clerk came over (I know! It surprised me too) and asked if I needed help. I said I needed NaOH w/o added Al. His idiotic response..."Does the FBI know about this?" I glared at this fool and walked away. He is the norm, not the exception.
 
butcher said:
I heard it was illegal for the normal guy to buy lab glass in Texas (what the HILL happened to Texas?), so check on your local laws.
A crystal meth epidemic happened. But its rampant everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if this law caught on. I'm surprised nitric and HCL are still rather easy to obtain.
 
Zan Divine,
My thought also, thank you for putting them to words, (something I am not good at), it is very scary, the authority's who visit and inspect you are not educated as they should be, and the dumb-ing down of our children, and society is haunting us, we live in a world of "modern technology", but I see in many way's we are moving back-ash-wards, thinking we are smarter, we are loosing real knowledge and understanding, that even ancient man has learned through much trial and error, too bad we do not learn from grandfathers and fore-fathers.

I see doctors and modern medicine, not that much more advanced than the ole time medicine men, and the medicine of there day (back then those medicine men practiced modern medicine and used modern technology for that date), today we see they were very wrong about many things, and see them as ancient cave men, not doctors (and we also throw out the baby with the bath water, (disregarding some very helpful medicine they discovered, throwing out the good with the bad), today we think chemicals are the answer, and radiation or cutting out large piece of ones body, or all kinds of other "modern medical medicines", many years from now they will call our modern doctors cave men or medicine men, and talk of how little we truly understand.

In many times I see the more educated a man gets the more common sense he looses.
We need wisdom and understanding not education, (this is hard for me to explain but if you think about it you will see what I am trying to say), although I believe an education done in a proper manner can lead to more wisdom and understanding.

I do not see schools today teaching anything more than training people who have a good memory, and can remember something until the end of the week and then pass a test so then they can forget that information and memorize the new information for the next test, and a sad thing is much of what they memorize is a mix of useless facts (some of which has use but the student is not taught how to apply these useful facts).

Well I can go on and on but my blood pressure is rising so I will quit now, and I do not know if I can put thought into word someone else may understand.
 
Im a newbee here, and to refining but must say, comments gave me a few laughs. (All in a good way)
Funny thing, I used to posses a few Pyrotechnic Licenses, one in NYC. I remember a trip back over the Verazano Bridge after a 3 gig loop show out of town. My Hazmat placards were off, as I had all the Hazmats used up in the shows. It was one of the high alert jokes, and I was pulled over at the bridge. When these "experts" oppened the back of the truck, they find firrering boards, heavy smell of gunpowder, you name it, mabe not 100% legal, but darn close. These "Men in black" had ZERO idea of what to do. They finally let me go,( Leaving 10 sniff dogs going bezerk.)
That said, I now live in a very rural /farming type state,It sure isnt N.Y.C.
That said? when I ask for fertilizer, I say its for my farm, bla bla. Pay with cash, etc. What we are tying to do is make some money, and may even assist a failing economy. But no need to raise flags to some in positions that they lack the knowledge they should posses in many instances.
 
My take on this is fairly simple, as most of the members are doing their recoveries and refining at home I'd advise trying to stay below the radar as much as possible. Visits or interest from the authorities may be troublesome or annoying but perhaps these days understandable but interest from the undesirables in society whose interest is raised at the mention of the materials we aim to recover is something to avoid, we all see the results of even the sight of the gold inside a computer tower or phone on those that believe it's Eldorado.
As I have stated before I'm pretty certain that the forum will be under a fair few agencies eyes and for those who do perhaps have a visit from the authorities a quick visit to the forum with them watching might quickly relieve any worries they may have.
 
nickvc said:
My take on this is fairly simple, as most of the members are doing their recoveries and refining at home I'd advise trying to stay below the radar as much as possible.
Excellent advice, in my opinion. Do everything properly, so if you get surprised they'll be the ones that are surprised. You'll be squeaky clean. That worked for me.

Harold
 

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