HCL question!

[ovidiuanghel]

Can i use this substance instead pure HCL?

http://www.ecosmep.com/cabecera/upload/fichas/4886.pdf

 

[publius]

It says that it is 20-30 % Hydrochloric acid...

 

[ovidiuanghel]

It says that it is 20-30 % Hydrochloric acid...

HCL+ aprox 1% Benzalkonium chloride. Can i use this?

 

[butcher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzalkonium_chloride

Although you say only 1% of this solution in the HCL, I do not like the idea of the ammonium organic look of the compound, you may not have any trouble with using it, but then again you must remember these metals can be dangerous when dissolved in certain compounds under some conditions explosive could be formed, why take chances, we work with glass vessels, you sure would not want one to explode in your face, HCl is cheap and easily available, personally I would look for a more pure hydrochloric acid without these additives, for my own safety.

 

[BAMGOLD]

http://www.lowes.com/pd_58558-78-GKGM75006C_0__?Ntt=muratic+acid&productId=3220089&rpp=16

It's cheap!

 

[goldsilverpro]

http://www.lowes.com/pd_58558-78-GKGM75006C_0__?Ntt=muratic+acid&productId=3220089&rpp=16

It's cheap!

That's definitely NOT the stuff to buy. For refining purposes, don't buy any muriatic that says "safer" on the label or lists anything other than hydrochloric - HCl, in the ingredients. It contains inhibitors, whose purpose is to inhibit (i.e., decrease, slow down) its reaction on metals. Just buy plain old muriatic, which is also sold at Lowes and about any hardware store. I think the stuff that ovidiuanghel was talking about also contained an inhibitor.

If I were using the muriatic for cleaning masonry, etc., I would buy the "safer" material, since it claims to have 90% less fumes. For refining, though, you need the reactivity of plain HCl.

At Lowes, here's the stuff you want.
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=206474-34228-CR.MA.P.01&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3024039&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=rel&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

 

[BAMGOLD]

Sorry, I just googled it VERY quick like

 

[ovidiuanghel]

thank you all.

I am from Romania and this is all i can buy http://www.ecosmep.com/cabecera/upload/fichas/4886.pdf


If is dangerous to use is a way to make from this pure HCL?

 

[Palladium]

Find a swimming pool supply store and buy the hcl there. Tell them you need it for your pool. I'm sure you have swimming pools there, right?

 

[butcher]

HCl can be made from distilling a concentrated saltNaCl and sulfuric acid solution, bubbling the HCl gas formed into water to make HCl acid.

You should be able to find purer HCl easier than you can one with additives, look for where they sell brick or concrete supply's,hardware stores, pool supply's, I just think you have not looked in the right place yet.

 

[ovidiuanghel]

Here the chemicals for pool is HCL free, now i face another problem.

A friend give me a 5 liter container with HCL, but the cap had a aluminium foil that dissolve and all the acid is contaminated.

Can i make someting with this?

Please forgive my bad english

 

[butcher]

The HCl may not be that bad as long as the foil your talking about was part of the original containers cap or lid, try filtering the HCl if it filters easily I would use it for everything up to the final stages of purifying my refined gold, for that you do not want any impurity you can avoid.

If you have trouble filtering it you can distill it.

 

[ovidiuanghel]

Thank you for replay, i filter the solution but now is not clear is a light brown colour.

 

[butcher]

aluminum would not make it brown, useually it can be a little yellow (I suspect from iron in manufactureing the HCl), I am not sure why yours would be brown.

what are you using this for? for removal of base metals?

 

[ovidiuanghel]

what are you using this for? for removal of base metals?

i want to use it for AP.
The brown color can be from the container? The container is from agriculture chemicals you think that is not be wash proprely?

 

[trashmaster]

Ask your friend where they got it . ????? :roll:

 

[ovidiuanghel]

Ask your friend where they got it . ????? :roll:

i know that in the container has been herbicide, but he wash it.

 

[butcher]

Trouble is you have no idea what the acid contains, there are dangers when working with metal chemistry, and you really should not mix unknown chemicals and metal powders, if the solution would work or not is not the problem, it is the danger to you from mixing an unknown chemical and harming yourself or others, don't give up looking for a source of HCl, it is a common chemical and should be easy to find almost any where in the world, you should keep searching until you find that source, I would not use the brown HCl in this application, you have no idea if a deadly gas would form or worse from its use, your health or your life is not worth the risk for a few grams of gold.

You are going to need good hydrochloric acid anyway, you are better off just finding out where you can buy it locally.

 

[ovidiuanghel]

Trouble is you have no idea what the acid contains, there are dangers when working with metal chemistry, and you really should not mix unknown chemicals and metal powders, if the solution would work or not is not the problem, it is the danger to you from mixing an unknown chemical and harming yourself or others, don't give up looking for a source of HCl, it is a common chemical and should be easy to find almost any where in the world, you should keep searching until you find that source, I would not use the brown HCl in this application, you have no idea if a deadly gas would form or worse from its use, your health or your life is not worth the risk for a few grams of gold.

You are going to need good hydrochloric acid anyway, you are better off just finding out where you can buy it locally.

I'm not use this chemical, here the law prohibit for a person to have more than 1 l hcl. I try to get from Hungary or Italy.

Thank you Butcher for helping me!

 

[butcher]

You could distill your own from NaCl (salt) and H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) bubbling the gas into water to make HCl acid; the NaSO4 (sodium sulfate) would not boil over if done properly.

2NaCl + H2SO4 --> 2HCl + Na2SO4

There is not too much to distilling once you learn how, as long as you use proper containers and understand the principles, like preventing suck back of cold liquids into the hot boiling vessel and other safety precautions.

Here is a process I use, it uses a gallon pickle jar and a sand bath as a home made distilling rig, I also explain in fair detail how to distill liquid and give some safety precautions, killing two birds with one rock:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6199&hilit=killing+two+birds+one+rock

You can also buy a lab-distilling rig for around 100 US dollars from Ebay and just use your saturated salt solution and sulfuric acid to make your HCL.

If you just used salt and sulfuric acid without distilling ( to make some HCl in solution)the sodium sulfate could give you trouble with metals like silver (making silver and metals like lead insoluble salts), (the silver sulfate would be hard to separate from the lead, and would also be a major pain to make back into silver metal.