Help Needed with First time refining Karat Gold

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croakersoaker

Active member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
40
Hi guys i attempted my first try at refining this weekend. first i inquarted some scrap 10k and 14k gold with some sterling jewelry and 90% silver coins. i ended up with 122 grams of 6k gold after inquarting.I digested in 50/50 nitric and distilled water 92ml of each.As i am taking it slow i filtered out the silver and copper nitrate.I then dropped the silver using copper pipe.i then washed and dryed the silver cement and melted into silver cornflakes.the silver flakes came out very good and looks fairly pure (picture below).i washed the gold and was not ready to do the aqua regia until in had time another weekend. so i dried it and decided to melt it into a button for safe keeping till the next step. the resulting button came out very ugly(see pics).i figured it would be fairly pure but it does not look that way and it weighs 42 grams which is about 10 to 12 grams more than i calculated,.is it common to be that much over weight after nitric and before aqua regia.can somebody tell me how i should proceed from here.should i do aqua regia next and based on the weight now or the expected weight how do i calculate the amount of acids.How should i Proceed?
 

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I can see immediately that you didn't use enough nitric to start with and that is the main problem. You had 122 g after inquarting, of which 91.5 g (75%) were silver + copper+ zinc. With the copper and zinc originally in the karat gold plus the silver and copper you added, I would guess that you ended up with about 78g of silver and 14 g of Cu + Zn. A gram of Ag will dissolve in about 1.22 ml of nitric (not counting the water) and a gram of Cu or Zn takes about 4.2 ml. Figuring this out, you would need a total of 154 ml of nitric, or maybe a little less, whereas, you only used 92 ml.

So now you have a chunk of metal with gold alloyed with a lot of Cu or Ag or both. Your second mistake was to melt it. If the silver is higher than about 10%, it won't dissolve in aqua regia and, therefore, you may have re-inquart it and start over. Had you not melted it, you could had added more nitric and dissolved the remaining Cu and Ag. Now, since the gold is about 80%, you can't do that. You might try dissolving your chunk in hot AR to see if the silver is low enough to allow the gold to dissolve. If the gold doesn't dissolve and/or, if a whitish crust of AgCl forms on the chunk, you'll have to re-inquart it. Remove any AgCl on the surface before doing this.

EDIT: I've been thinking about this and, since the copper will tend to dissolve before the silver, I think you have a silver rich alloy that won't dissolve in AR (also, it looks greeish and green means hi-silver). Therefore, I would definitely recommend re-inquarting and starting over. Forget the AR at this point. I am also saying this because you have little experience in doing this, but you do know how to inquart. Just smile and think of how much you learned by making these mistakes. I bet you won't make them again.
 
I'm sorry I Mispoke I Actually used around 130 ml of nitric and the same of water. It was 90 grams of base metals x 1.44 ml per kaddrivers tutorial. So if you don't know the exact composition of the basemmetals how
Do you know how much acid
To use?
 
Croaker, you'll have to do some math.
You'll need the weight of the the 10k you had & figure how much gold it should yield. Do the same with for the 14k. Once you've figured how much gold they should yield, the rest would be base metals; plus the silver you used for inquarting. How much silver did you used for inquarting; how much did you recovered all ready?

By the way, do you have the information on how much nitric is needed to dissolve a gram of silver; of copper?
 
Unfortunately I no longer have that information. What I do know is that originally I calculated that I should have 30.5 grams of pure gold.I added the difference in weight to the karat gold to make 122 grams bringing it to 6 karat.
 
croakersoaker said:
So if you don't know the exact composition of the basemmetals how do you know how much acid to use?
It is a problem knowing how much nitric to use on karat gold inquarted with silver. The ratio of silver/copper is unknown and it requires 3 times the nitric for the same mass of copper than it does for the silver.

I have not checked your calculations, but one way around your dilemma is to digest your inquarted gold in 2 steps. In the first step use just a little less nitric than you think you need and heat until there is no further reaction. Then after decanting add nitric again only use 3-4 times more nitric than you think you will need. After heating and no further reaction is seen, decant again. Just save your second solution for digesting your next inquartation as you should have unconsumed nitric present.
 
I just guessed that you ended up with about 85% of the 91.5 grams being silver with the remaining 15% being copper and zinc. This isn't rocket science and you'll never be able to estimate the nitric perfectly. However, it's not necessary to do so. What you're trying to do is dissolve ALL of the non-gold metals without using a lot of extra nitric. Everybody has their own way to do this. For a small amount, here's my way. It always works and it is fast. It will take about 20 to 30 minutes to totally dissolve the silver and base metals.

(1) Estimate how much nitric you'll need and measure this out.
(2) Put the 122 grams of inquarted, shotted gold alloy in an adequate sized beaker. In this case, you'll end up with about 300ml of solution, so use at least a one liter beaker (a Pyrex coffee pot will work). Place the beaker in a catch dish that will take the heat. The only ones I have found that won't break are the Pyroceram or Visions dishes made by Corning Ware.
(3) Under the fume hood, cover the metal with an amount of distilled water equal to the estimated nitric. In this case, about 150 ml. Place the CW dish on a hotplate, set to about medium-low, and heat the water until you see a little steam.
(4) Add about 1/6 - 1/4 of the nitric. You should see a reaction almost immediately. When the reaction dies down, give it a gentle stir and add another portion of nitric. Repeat this until a small addition of nitric produces no reaction.

Notes:
(1) Towards the end, raise the temperature a bit to drive the reaction to completion, but never allow the solution to boil.
(2) Towards the end, use smaller additions of nitric, in order to help prevent using an excess.
(3) The estimated nitric you first measured out may be too much or too little. If you have a little nitric left over after a small addition produces no reaction, stop adding. If you use all the nitric, add a little extra and repeat until a small addition produces no reaction.
(4) Especially towards the end, after making a small addition, it may take a little time (often, a minute or two or three) before the reaction occurs. Give it time to react.
(5) When everything is dissolved that's going to dissolve, turn off the heat and add about 50-75 ml of extra distilled water. This compensates for any evaporated water and will prevent any crystallization when cooled. A little extra water won't hurt.
(6) As Oz said, you can do this in 2 stages. In this case, I would only add a total of about 90% of the estimated nitric. After all the nitric has reacted, let it cool a bit, carefully pour off the solution into another container, without pouring off any of the gold particles. Then add a little distilled water, heat, and dissolve the remaining silver and copper with very small increments of nitric. When a small addition produces no reaction, stop adding.
(7) You can do this without applying heat, but it will go much slower. You have to wait much longer before nitric additions. Otherwise, if you have too much unreacted nitric in the solution, it will slowly heat up from the reaction and can then produce a violent reaction and boil over. Also, without heat, it's hard to prevent using too much nitric and it's harder to dissolve that last bit of silver and copper. It's much more iffy without heat.
(8) You can, although I'm not a fan of doing this, pre-mix the estimated nitric and water. Just make sure you have a large enough container so it won't foam over. If I were to do this, I would start with about 90% of the estimated nitric plus water. If you're not using heat, let it work overnight. Then, pour it off, put the residue in a beaker, and dissolve what remains with a little nitric and water, preferably hot.

Chris
 

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