How drop all gold from AR

[orvi]

It started as 18kt which may contain Ag and Cu..plus solder… no inquart so I’m not sure it meets the gold only standard… any other thoughts ?

How much material it was before dissolution ? Because once AR turns from green to brown, you have simultaneous Cu(I)+Cu(II) presence - and due to this I doubt there is free oxidizer (nitric & residues of nitric) left. Heat the solution to some 70-80 °C and observe if it changes back to green again.

You need to de-NOx properly before SMB treatment. Or keep it very hot and brute-force the drop+de-NOx-ing with SMB (very vigorous and dangerous process, furious foam-overs not uncommon). Otherwise, it will simply redissolve back.

 

[1bigboy]

I have added mor hcl..heated…added urea..filtered…dark green color… ph 2..

Heating… and will add Zinc powder and I should be in a position to start over with AR….correct ?

 

[1bigboy]

How much material it was before dissolution ? Because once AR turns from green to brown, you have simultaneous Cu(I)+Cu(II) presence - and due to this I doubt there is free oxidizer (nitric & residues of nitric) left. Heat the solution to some 70-80 °C and observe if it changes back to green again.

You need to de-NOx properly before SMB treatment. Or keep it very hot and brute-force the drop+de-NOx-ing with SMB (very vigorous and dangerous process, furious foam-overs not uncommon). Otherwise, it will simply redissolve back.

I wish to cement the solution after I add more HCL, heated, added mild Urea solution, added a little more water…ph 2…cement at a higher than boil point of water with zinc..?

 

[Yggdrasil]

I wish to cement the solution after I add more HCL, heated, added mild Urea solution, added a little more water…ph 2…cement at a higher than boil point of water with zinc..?

Your post do not make sense.
Make a point by point description please.

You really do not want to use Zinc on mixed solutions, better use Copper.

 

[Martijn]

I wish to cement the solution after I add more HCL, heated, added mild Urea solution, added a little more water…ph 2…cement at a higher than boil point of water with zinc..?

Besides your post not making sense;
How exactly will you raise the temperature ABOVE boiling point?

and your questions tell me you should not be handling chemicals yet. stop and study please.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...imple-question-and-get-a-simple-answer.21412/https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/

 

[Mariusz K]

cement it with any metal (aluminium/zinc/iron/etc)

 

[billgold]

cement it with any metal (aluminium/zinc/iron/etc)

NO! DO NOT FOLLOW THAT ADVICE!

My apologies for the shouting, but it is important. You want to drop out only precious metals, not every metal that is in solution. That means to De-NOx the solution, then cement out the precious metals using copper. Zinc does not belong in this process path at this time. It is best to not use it at all as it is a very dirty method to drop gold out of solution.

Since you obviously have not read and understood Hoke's book, I suggest you stop right where you are and post a detailed description of what you have done in your latest attempt to screw up the refining. There are people here who will be able to get you back on the right path. You are not doing yourself any favors by doing procedures that you do not understand, then asking after the fact what to do next.

 

[goldshark]

Besides your post not making sense;
How exactly will you raise the temperature ABOVE boiling point?

and your questions tell me you should not be handling chemicals yet. stop and study please.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...imple-question-and-get-a-simple-answer.21412/https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/

Put it in a pressure cooker. But I don't think the results would improve.

 

[Martijn]

cement it with any metal (aluminium/zinc/iron/etc)

Welcome to the forum.
We dissolve metals to separate, recover and refine them.
Cementing on such reactive metals as you suggest would result in all metals in solution to turn back to elemental form. This makes no sense because you are back where you started and need to dissolve the base metals out again wasting acids.

 

[Martijn]

Put it in a pressure cooker. But I don't think the results would improve.

Ok. But technically it will still be at the boiling point. Only not at atmospheric pressure. 😉

 

[Mariusz K]

Yeah. and since when is it not visible that the precious metals have already been cemented and only copper remains in the solution?
using copper is stupid, because we can recover a maximum of 90% of gold and other precious metals
Next case!
you write that it makes no sense because we are returning to the starting point. and ok at least you can make a normal solution, de-nox and cementation of precious metals

 

[FrugalRefiner]

What?

Yeah. and since when is it not visible that the precious metals have already been cemented and only copper remains in the solution?

Since we found that stannous chloride does a much better job.

using copper is stupid, because we can recover a maximum of 90% of gold and other precious metals
Next case!

What? Properly used, copper will displace precious metals quantitatively.

you write that it makes no sense because we are returning to the starting point. and ok at least you can make a normal solution, de-nox and cementation of precious metals

I'm not sure who or what you're referring to here.

Dave

 

[Martijn]

I'm not sure who or what you're referring to here.

it was me.

Welcome to the forum.
We dissolve metals to separate, recover and refine them.
Cementing on such reactive metals as you suggest would result in all metals in solution to turn back to elemental form. This makes no sense because you are back where you started and need to dissolve the base metals out again wasting acids.

you write that it makes no sense because we are returning to the starting point.

So cementing dissolved recovered values containing base metals less reactive than e.g. zinc will cement out.
what was the purpose of dissolving them? just for fun? Was he bored and did not feel like going fishing?
the metal you add to cement will also leave metal traces of itself behind in the cement, so it makes no sense at all.
al you did was make a powder from a metal alloy containing the exact same elements as started with. only in powder form, grinding and sanding will do the same.

This is a Refining forum. Not a sanding and grinding forum.

Cementation of precious metals is done with copper, because all metals below copper are considered (Semi) precious. Do you understand the reactivity series?

 

[Martijn]

using copper is stupid, because we can recover a maximum of 90% of gold and other precious metals
Next case!

Where does this wisdome come from? Do yo have a source?

can the moderators strikethrough false statements with a comment? this would save a lot of "urea belongs in the garden to fertilize"

You may have some experience, but please only make statements you are sure of or can prove.
New members may read only your part and accept is as the truth.
It is very hard to get misunderstandings and disinformation debunked once they are repeated a couple times. Most of you tube is monkey see monkey do. And monkey steal and copy too.
Believing something to be true is even harder to prove wrong. We like to stick to science and facts. proven.

So do you have source of this statement?

 

[Mariusz K]

You're talking like you've eaten everything you can think of, but your knowledge comes from reading a few topics on Facebook and watching a few videos on YouTube I'm finishing this conversation, so you can write as much as you want, because I won't get irritated by explaining the basics of non-organic chemistry to someone.

 

[4metals]

I'm finishing this conversation, so you can write as much as you want, because I won't get irritated by explaining the basics of non-organic chemistry to someone.

Excellent suggestion, we appreciate it. Because you have shown already in your brief tenure here that you know little about the subject.

 

[Martijn]

You're talking like you've eaten everything you can think of, but your knowledge comes from reading a few topics on Facebook and watching a few videos on YouTube I'm finishing this conversation, so you can write as much as you want, because I won't get irritated by explaining the basics of non-organic chemistry to someone.

My knowledge comes from here. I don't have facebook.
And I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Your statement does not match the whole stockpot concept: getting the last traces of pm's out of solutions, hence my qeustion.
Why do you say it's 90% max.?
Please explain.

No need to get personal. Stick to the science and facts please.

 

[Yggdrasil]

You're talking like you've eaten everything you can think of, but your knowledge comes from reading a few topics on Facebook and watching a few videos on YouTube I'm finishing this conversation, so you can write as much as you want, because I won't get irritated by explaining the basics of non-organic chemistry to someone.

Keep this civil, and show respect to the other members.
You first impression was less than stellar, no way of fixing that.
But still hoping that we can learn from each others.

 

[giahylxag]

should always customer wait till I cement the AR waste?

In my market as far as I know you will have some gold in stock readily give to your customer first.
Then you recover what's left later.
You may get a loss if you can't recover enough what you have given.

 

[Mariusz K]

"Keep this civil, and show respect to the other members.
You first impression was less than stellar, no way of fixing that.
But still hoping that we can learn from each others."

I don't care, because i don't speak english so well ( My Primary language is not English so language errors may occur, please do correct me whenever needed.) and i have my groups, forums and friends which want to talk about precious metals recovery
take care