how to recover my gold foils after ap?

[artart47]

Hi! I ran a test batch of fingers in ap following steve's video.
after all the foils were removed, I set the inner bucket that contained the stripped fingers aside and filtered the ap liquid, which had turned almost black.
I washed the filter content into container "A".
Then I noticed that there were still many foils clinging to the stripped fingers so I rinsed them with water into container "B".while they were still in the drilled bucket like in the video.
I now have...
Container A It has been rinsed twice with HCl and contains gold foils,brown/black granuals/powder, in a little HCl/rinse H2O.
" " B It contains gold foil, allot of what looks like what a sheet of toilet paper looks like if you were to stir it up in a glass of water( the color is like dissolved solder mask only very pail) and rinse water
and, my reaction bucket. It contains ap solution ( used to process the fingers) color, dark greenish brown almost black.
I'm wondering how to proceed?
about cont. "A"
should I separate the gold foils from the dark solids? What are they? If seperated, return them to the reaction bucket?
about cont. "B" The fingers were closely cut so what is the toilet paper looking stuff and how do i get it separated from the gold foils?
about react.. bucket? I've read in a post that i can bubble air thru the ap to rejuvenate it. will that make dissolved Au. drop out as the ap lightens in color? or can I process another batch of fingers in the solution untill it's saturated with Au.? ( once I figure out what my problem is!) and, If I can reuse it for more fingers, would I first warm it to evaporate the water from the 3% H2O2 thus reducing the volume back to where I started? Would I add more HCl and peroxide to keep the reaction going or is the acid just revamped by adding only peroxide like during the first batch?
This is exciting but I would appreciate any advice you have to offer! Thanks! artart47

 

[Geo]

the hcl+peroxide isnt what dissolves the copper base metal, its the copper chloride solution. just reuse the same solution over and over again with a bubbler of course.take the foils with the white stuff and add a little fresh hcl acid to it and see if the white stuff dissolves, if not dont worry about it because it wont matter in the end because you will leave it behind in the next step. take all the foils from both containers and rinse with tap water till theres no color to the water. filter the foils and what ever else is with it as long as its no big peices of base metal. allow the foils to dry. try placing the filter with the foils in a dry warm place like on top of the fridge overnight. when its all dry place foils in a clean container and add hcl (just enough to cover the foils) then add chlorine bleach by very small increments, 15-20 ml at a time and stir after each time. look at the foils after each time you add bleach and when all the foils are dissolved place the container in a safe place that it wont be spilled (do not put a lid on the container). the afore mentioned process should be done outside or in a fume hood as chlorine gas will be produced. wait 24 hours for the chlorine to evaporate and then you can precipitate your gold with which ever precipitate you choose. theres more but im tired, when you get this far post a comment and youll get further instruction.

 

[lazersteve]

Combine all of the foils and trash into one container using a spray bottle, then wash with HCl to remove the copper I chloride
. Proceed to dissolving the washed foils with a minomal amount of your favorite solvent for gold ( AR, HCl-Cl, etc).

Don't mix the rinse solutions with the primary solution (black) if you want to reuse the AP.

Steve

 

[artart47]

Hi everyone!
Geo & Steve, I want to thank you for your help.
The white stuff disolved immediatly when I washed w/HCl. I've collected all the foils,gold powder and filtrate mud in one container and will run them in HCl-Cl soon. Thanks again!
I've been running an air hose/fish tank pump in the ap bucket since i asked you about it,but don't understand about the air.
What does it do to the ap solution to rejuvinate it? And, would I run it now when i'm not processing fingers or just durring when I have material in the solution? also, is air a substitute instead of adding more H2O2 durring the next batch?
I,ve got pictures of my results and will post them as soon as I find a ten year old who can help me get them from the camera into the computer!
Later!

 

[Palladium]

I've been running an air hose/fish tank pump in the ap bucket since i asked you about it,but don't understand about the air.
What does it do to the ap solution to rejuvinate it? And, would I run it now when i'm not processing fingers or just durring when I have material in the solution? also, is air a substitute instead of adding more H2O2 durring the next batch?

We need oxygen to convert copper to copper oxide so the hcl can absorb it into solution. Hcl alone will not dissolve copper. So attack rate is tie to the amount of oxygen that we can get into a solution. When you add h2o2 at the beginning it allows some copper oxide to form so the process can start. Once started you don't have to add h2o2 anymore because the air pump supplies the dissolved oxygen you need. If you’re not going to do any more processing you can store the solution in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid. Then once you take it back out to use just drop the air bubbler back in and your good to go.

 

[artart47]

hey everyone!
This is what I recovered from my fisrt attempt at ap from cards memory ect... with your help of course! I feel like I chased a beautiful woman for two years (reading and learning) and finally scored with her!
Thanks!
I hope the picturs show up, never did pics on the computer before.

 

[butcher]

Good going, that is a pretty golden lady post more pictures of her blooming into a button, your hands look like mine, I never did learn how to post pictures, are you at dennys resturant there? wonder if my dennys has a bowl of that on the menu?

 

[jmdlcar]

After I use AP and rinsed 3 times if I understand it I use HCL again how long do I wait before I rinse again? I might have a problem I have some green paint mix with the gold foil can it be fix?

 

[Geo]

what ever material thats mixed with the foils will be left behind when you dissolve the foils. paint will not effect this process. if the foils are off and you have rinsed them with hcl the next step is to dissovle the foils with hcl+cl then filter this solution following the steps on lazersteves website. all non-metal material will be left in the filter.

 

[Smack]

I would say investing in rubber gloves would not be a bad idea. :shock:

 

[butcher]

The hands are worn from work, not refining.

 

[artart47]

Hi everyone!
Just an update on what I've been doing since my first AP trial!
My gold foils are safely put away till it's acid/chlorox time. Thanks to everyone who helped me with that!
Two other, small experiments I've been doing in order to become familiar with what I've been reading are...
I ran a second AP bucket with about eighty populated cell phone boards. The boards are totally clean and the thin gold plating seems to have dissolved into the solution or is in the filtrate.( hey gold, you can hide, but you can't escape! I'm commin back later and I'll find you!) I put away the powder/mud and the SMD's and have the solution on the side for later use/study.
I've been trying the search but, haven't really found anything about how to proceed with this. I plan to collect SMD's and eventually grind them to a fine powder and see what they yield.
The second is the one that I find interesting. I put a bunch of plated pins in a bucket and covered them with HCl. They have been in there for over a month. I agitate the bucket everytime I walk past, About every week I take a thick blunt ended piece of plastic and stir while mashing the pins on the bottom of the pail. I wanted to see if the gold would flake off parts of the pins that were partly hallowed out by the leaching of the base metals thereby exposing the remaining base metals to increased contact with the acid. after each mashing the brown acid is loaded with gold flakes and is poured off and filtered. I then add new acid to cover the pins. I've done five such pour-offs.
I added in with the pins some of the very small, pins left in their plastic holders. I wanted to find out if the pins, given enough time and agitation. could be leached out of the plastic. Most of the pins were extracted from the plastic by the process. As I spry d water into the holes, the little gold particles came out the other side, free of base metal and the holes appear to be empty when held up to a light.
The jar contains the filtrate from this process. I did the following treatments to the contents of the jar.
Filled it with HCl and brought it to a simmer in a water bath and decanted.
Repeated with tap water. HCl,tape water had no visual affect.
repeated with 32% H2SO4 then with water. This seems to have reduced the volume by about 30%
I'm pretty sure that the H2SO4 reacted and the hot water dissolved it, but, both when settled and decanted seemed to be clear with no color.
I learned some things. I now have a scale and will be able to keep accurate records of my future work.
I'd like to know if I'm on the right track with what I'm doing. and any advise or links to posts that could help me plan the next step for these materials.
I hope the pics show up. I had a hard time with them and my daughter said they will show up when I post. I also included a, sort of" haul of the day" pic of the load I got from the storeroom of a software design company.
thanks

 

[Geo]

I ran a second AP bucket with about eighty populated cell phone boards. The boards are totally clean and the thin gold plating seems to have dissolved into the solution or is in the filtrate.

gold on cell phone boards are like telecom boards,the gold is very thin and will seldom come of in sheets or even big flakes.usually it comes off in finely divided particles,its there but the pieces is so small its mixed in with the junk.take all the solids and process with hcl/cl.the solution will be dirty and green,filter through a couple of filters and precipitate.it will drag down impurities like copper so it will need to be refined again.

after each mashing the brown acid is loaded with gold flakes and is poured off and filtered. I then add new acid to cover the pins.

really no need to do this.if you had an air supply in your AP it wouldn't take as long and there would be no need to keep adding acid.hcl acid does not dissolve copper but copper chloride will.you need the dark colored solution to dissolve the copper,every time you drained it off and replaced it with fresh acid you actually slowed the process down.copper chloride will etch copper as long as oxygen is present to oxidize the copper,adding an air supply such as a fish bubbler keeps the solution aerated and rich with oxygen speeding up the process.

 

[artart47]

Thanks Geo for your imput, just wanted to clearify. I did run air in the AP. The stiring ,mashing and pour-offs were in the other bucket with the plated pins which were covered only with HCl. I figured that the pin is a hollow tube of Au filled with base metal. Acid can only get at the one end of the pin because the rest of it is protected by theAu.so I wanted to see if as the tube was mined of it's core,say 10% of if it's legnth, the hollow gold tube could be broken up thereby exposing new base metal.
I noticed my pics didn't post. I'm going to find a nine--year old to come they know everything about doing this computer crap. they even can make the VCR stop flashing "00" "00"

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Your solution will get thru the gold plating thru the pores in the gold and work on the base metals.

 

[maek1]

Hi guys ! I just wanted to say you are all great guys and im glad I found this forum. ok so Ive been using ap solution for cpu pins and connector pins. Ive been reading the forums for days and Ive used air bubbler and also ive used heat, but its not dissolving all the base metal. It looks like the gold is plating back out as black powder , Ive been reading hokes book but not much there on escrap lol! any help would be much appreciated .

 

[Geo]

Hi guys ! I just wanted to say you are all great guys and im glad I found this forum. ok so Ive been using ap solution for cpu pins and connector pins. Ive been reading the forums for days and Ive used air bubbler and also ive used heat, but its not dissolving all the base metal. It looks like the gold is plating back out as black powder , Ive been reading hokes book but not much there on escrap lol! any help would be much appreciated .

how long has it been since you put the material in the solution?

what percentages did you mix the AP?

what condition is the solution in?

is there loose foils floating in the solution?

 

[artart47]

Hi everyone!
My gold jar is filling up! Everyone at Denney's is calling me "miner".
I thought I'd post an update on the kind of routine I've fallen into.
I have been running three basic buckets for a while, all the fingers comming in go in the AP bucket, beautiful green gives me a steady supply of foils that get a day in the Hcl jar and the are added to my stash jar.
I cut all the gold connectors and plated pins from small things either snip off the ends that have solder or drop them in HCl and then they go in AP bucket no# 2, I put the in plastic and all. The old ones stay in and the new ones are added. The contents gets mash and stirred often. air bubbler too.
As the base metals get eaten away the liquid is filled with little gold flecks. I stir it violently and decant to another bucket and then filter back into the origonal bucket and get a constant supply of gold from it. I've been collecting the plastic floaters, most of them have no metal left in them!
Then I am still using No#3 The depopulating experiment bucket. About 2-1/2 gallons AP I've been doing cell and other simple boards that have very thin gold plating. The gold vanishes into the solution and I collect all the smd's for later.
Now, this solution is so dark and is getting heavy/thicker and seems to be like saturated. From reading posts and searching, I,m trying to drop everything with copper so I can process solution for disposal or can it be turned back for AP use after the other metals drop and are removed?
To start it last night, I hung a piece of stranded copper cable in it and have air going. I plan to put any dropped residue aside till I learn how to process it. Why when you try to wash this filtrate from the filter with a sprey-bottle( H2O) does it turn blue w/ white precipitate? Is this the tin problem I'm reading about or a lead salt or the copper change from CuII toCuI? It's the next thing I was going to start studing!
I really want to thank Geo, Steve and the others that helped me and gave their advise thus far!
If you think of a post or tutorial that might help me I'd appreciate hearing of it!

ps. I'm getting a load of stuff ready for a trip down to boardsort in Ohio.
Getting excited! Haven't been on a trip in a long time. Scarey though! Old "88" Chevy pick-up,Wi-Ohio.
If it works at least the kids will have a Christmas this year!
Kinda like I'd be leaving as"scrap guy" and returning as Santa Clause!
Thanks everyone and have a great Christmas!

 

[Geo]

Now, this solution is so dark and is getting heavey/thicker and seems to be like saturated. From reading posts and searching, I,m trying to drop everything with copper so I can process solution for disposal or can it be turned back for AP use after the other metals dropand are removed?
To start it last night, I hung a piece of stranded copper cable in it and have air going. I plan to put any dropped residue aside till I learn how to process it.

treat this solution as you would any "stock pot". it sounds like your solution is indeed saturated. remove the air supply and whatever copper that is left. carefully decant this solution to another container as to not disturb any solids in the bottom of the bucket, a better method would be to syphon this solution out of the bucket (if you need help with this, lazersteve has a video on his website that shows the process). stop short of any solids then transfer these solids to another container as these solids will contain any values be carefull not to spill. replace the solution and the air supply and let air bubble through the solution for a few days untill the solution clears to a lighter emerald color. the solution should be ready to reuse. take the solids you recovered and rinse with hot water as many times as it takes so that the rinse water remains clear. digest a small sample in hcl/cl and test with stannous chloride to see if it holds any values.

 

[artart47]

Thanks Geo! Will do.