As I and many senior members have said before me refining is as much an art as a science, we are blessed here having both practical chemists and exacting refiners and in many cases both. Having a good knowledge of general chemistry to start helps but the whole field of refining precious metals needs to be treated as a specific field with so much to learn and master that I doubt anyone knows it all.
I think I'm losing gold from my solution
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kurtak
Well-known member
testerman said:
yes there is gold inside of them (between the top & bottom lid) - you do not want to crush them down to a fine powder - if you do you are going to have a filtering problem - you just need to break them open so the acid can get into the space between the top & bottom lids --- there is no gold in the ceramic - just in the "space" between the lids
Edit ; opps - I see goran already mentioned the filter problem if crushed fine
Kurt
solar_plasma
Well-known member
Harold_V wrote:
In fact, I always got headache from calculating solubility products, but I found a complete calculation for this case on the net:
http://www.chemieonline.de/forum/showthread.php?t=87370 (the last post, the formulas should be international understandable)
In short words: The silver chloride will form [edit: under the right conditions] a AgCl2-complex with any excess of chloride. The solubility product in relation to the equilibrium constant of the complex reaction defines how much Ag+ will stay dissolved.
at 1 mol/l of Cl- the maximum total concentration of Ag+ is 0,022 mol/l, which could be considered as 3,15 g AgCl per liter.
at 10 mol/l of Cl- the maximum total concentration of Ag+ is 0,22 mol/l, which could be considered as 31,5 AgCl per liter.
Probably there are other variables to be considered in the reality since there is more than just HCl and AgCl in our AR. Also the temperature plays a role, that isn't considered in this calculation..
Any corrections are appreciated.
In fact, I always got headache from calculating solubility products, but I found a complete calculation for this case on the net:
http://www.chemieonline.de/forum/showthread.php?t=87370 (the last post, the formulas should be international understandable)
In short words: The silver chloride will form [edit: under the right conditions] a AgCl2-complex with any excess of chloride. The solubility product in relation to the equilibrium constant of the complex reaction defines how much Ag+ will stay dissolved.
at 1 mol/l of Cl- the maximum total concentration of Ag+ is 0,022 mol/l, which could be considered as 3,15 g AgCl per liter.
at 10 mol/l of Cl- the maximum total concentration of Ag+ is 0,22 mol/l, which could be considered as 31,5 AgCl per liter.
Probably there are other variables to be considered in the reality since there is more than just HCl and AgCl in our AR. Also the temperature plays a role, that isn't considered in this calculation..
Any corrections are appreciated.
kurtak
Well-known member
pu_239
Before I became a member here about 4 years ago I knew "nothing" about chemistry - everything I now know about chemistry is the result of being a member of this forum (ether directly from info on the forum or as the result of research outside the forum inspired by being here on the forum
That being said let me also say that in the 4 years I have been a member of this forum I have seem many people come here that had an education in chemistry but knew nothing about refining PMs --- but because they had an education in chemistry - instead of listening to the advise of the members here with "YEARS" of experience in refining they became confrontational & argumentative - their stay here was short lived (that's not meant to be directed at you - just a bit of advise)
Refining is an art/science/chemistry all its own - meaning as much as you may have an education in chemistry when it comes to refining your chemistry educations is just beginning - you still have much to learn & its time to once again hit the books (this forum being one of those books)
I am sure that if I tried applying my refining chemistry knowledge to other chemistry situations that you are more familiar with you would be telling me the same thing - so I hope I have not offended you - I would not be offended if you told me I still had a lot to learn about chemistry outside the chemistry of refining
Kurt
Before I became a member here about 4 years ago I knew "nothing" about chemistry - everything I now know about chemistry is the result of being a member of this forum (ether directly from info on the forum or as the result of research outside the forum inspired by being here on the forum
That being said let me also say that in the 4 years I have been a member of this forum I have seem many people come here that had an education in chemistry but knew nothing about refining PMs --- but because they had an education in chemistry - instead of listening to the advise of the members here with "YEARS" of experience in refining they became confrontational & argumentative - their stay here was short lived (that's not meant to be directed at you - just a bit of advise)
Refining is an art/science/chemistry all its own - meaning as much as you may have an education in chemistry when it comes to refining your chemistry educations is just beginning - you still have much to learn & its time to once again hit the books (this forum being one of those books)
I am sure that if I tried applying my refining chemistry knowledge to other chemistry situations that you are more familiar with you would be telling me the same thing - so I hope I have not offended you - I would not be offended if you told me I still had a lot to learn about chemistry outside the chemistry of refining
Kurt
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well, the verdict is in.testerman said:
According to my own crushing of the Pentium Pro CPU's, and then putting the crushed material into a beaker of AR, and adding the correct amount of HCL+HNO3 + Heat, I can say for myself that there is no more gold inside of the ceramics of the Pentium Pro's. I tried it myself, so my findings are not related to what others say.
I still have about 5 lbs worth of ceramic cpu's that could be tested too. At least 1 lb of them to see the results.
What I read somewhere, I believe on this forum or from somewhere else, according to the information, once the AR starts to dissolve the metals, the acids will travel along the inside of the cpu's and dissolve out the gold, which includes all the wiring and connections. I believe I read it somewhere.
Nevertheless, add my information to your notes and you should be able to conclude if there are values or not inside of the Pentium Pro CPU's. From what I did already, the answer is "no". No gold inside.
Kevin
Wrong, there were no gold inside the ceramic since there were no gold inside the ceramic at the beginning. The wires inside the body are made of molybdenum.testerman said:
Göran
A
Anonymous
Guest
If I'm wrong about what I READ, so be it. But what am I wrong about? If the information isn't correct, then I can see "being wrong" on my source. I never said is I know for a fact, I said I read somewhere, and even if the information is wrong, at least it can be corrected in the form to make it right. You can quote and do as instructed, and then someone can say to you "wrong".... although you've done it by instructions. My claims are from MY OWN experiments. So I'm not wrong in suggestion what another source said. The source may very well be wrong, but don't blurt out on me like I'm promoting misinformed/bad information. I'm revealing something I've read. The same as reading Hoke's book. You read it. And guess what?... You Applied It!g_axelsson said:
Whatever the inside are made of, I believe I made a point/experiment that there isn't any gold inside of them. That was and is my point. No gold inside of the ceramic Pentium Pro CPU's.
Kevin
Okay, that's fair. What you have read (or remembered as you don't know where you read it and didn't give a source) is wrong. There are no gold traces inside the ceramic.testerman said:
The statement that you have read it or remembered that you have read it is true. Maybe I should have cut out the part of the quote where you wrote you had read it somewhere. I apologize if I offended you. Sometimes I miss the finer nuances of the English language since this isn't my first language.
This reminds me a lot of my mother, she always tells me to add "I think" to anything I say so no one could ever tell me I'm wrong. 8)
Back to refining, there are a couple of strong argument that there is no gold inside the ceramic from the beginning.
If there were gold conductors and
it would take very long time. The acid would be exhausted and stop dissolving gold after a short wile inside the narrow hole. There is no flow in such a narrow channel and the only transport mechanism is diffusion which becomes slower he deeper you go.
If there were gold conductors you could probably see them in a microscope when breaking an IC. I haven't seen it when looking at broken IC:s
If
it would leave hollow channels where the ceramic would break when crushing it. It doesn't.
If
it would leave a very concentrated gold chloride inside the channel and that is impossible to wash out after the AR treatment. You would have found that gold when you crushed the ceramic base but you didn't.
Göran
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
I have processed hundreds if not more Pentium Pros. My average is .33 grams per CPU. I remove the caps and process separately. Since the AR solutions are dirty, I use a BDG process to extract the Au, then Oxalic to precipitate. No double refining needed.
Scott
Scott
Barren Realms 007
In Remembrance
NobleMetalWorks said:
Don't you mean .33g ea?
Now we know who is spreading the rumors about great yield on PPros! :mrgreen:
Göran
Göran
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well maybe they should be processed as normal and THEN crush the ceramic and process it later and work out the total yield. Just a suggestion......
kurtak
Well-known member
According to these guys there is 1 gram per pen pro cpu :arrow: http://www.ozcopper.com/computer-cpu-gold-yields/
its the third one down from top
Kurt
its the third one down from top
Kurt
necromancer
Well-known member
that list looks familiar, just edited a bit. with a bit of false information....
there is no contact information on that site, wonder why.
there is no contact information on that site, wonder why.
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
Barren Realms 007 said:
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I went ahead and edited the post. Thanks for catching that.
Scott
NobleMetalWorks
Well-known member
The rumor of 1 gram per PP CPU has been going around and around for years now. If you simply search for Pentium Pro posts on this forum, you will soon find that the actual yields of members who have processed them are almost all the same.
There are times I will get .34 and others .3. It depends on the chips, where they were made, what year, what model, etc.
The only way you are ever going to understand the actual yields is if you practice your craft, become very adept at processing CPUs, and then keep your own data reviewing it when you want to understand yields of material you are purchasing to process.
When it comes to gold, people who are selling gold bearing material always believe there is far more gold in the material than there actually is. This rings true in almost every case. Just look at the unrealistic prices Pentium Pros sell for on ebay. You will see exactly what I am saying.
Scott
There are times I will get .34 and others .3. It depends on the chips, where they were made, what year, what model, etc.
The only way you are ever going to understand the actual yields is if you practice your craft, become very adept at processing CPUs, and then keep your own data reviewing it when you want to understand yields of material you are purchasing to process.
When it comes to gold, people who are selling gold bearing material always believe there is far more gold in the material than there actually is. This rings true in almost every case. Just look at the unrealistic prices Pentium Pros sell for on ebay. You will see exactly what I am saying.
Scott
