Emmjae my only comment on your processing technique for sweeps is please make sure that you stir the sweeps powder in your beaker as it heats or else you will get breaks and possible losses otherwise seems good to me 8)
Jeweler’s Dirt
- Thread starter Emmjae
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Emmjae said:
If it's in powder form then it shouldn't take that long to dissolve in AR. Ive never processed powder before but if it has more than 10% AG content then i would think that this could be what's slowing the AR process even though it's in powder form. Other than that perhaps invest in some 70% Nitric and see how it goes compared to the Cold Nitric recipe.
I don't think your doing anything wrong if your dissolving all the powder but if your going to be doing a lot of this stuff then it would help to speed up the process a bit.
Sweeps never dissolve totally in acid they usually only have 10% (at most for jewelry sweeps) of their total weight as metal, there is always a lot of insoluble material.
The volume of the undissolved is why I suspect it was put up in acid a second time.
The volume of the undissolved is why I suspect it was put up in acid a second time.
Here In Montreal things are different than where Emmjae lives.
The stories of refiners ripping off jewelers is common everywhere.
That's why the honest guys is also affected by those things.
I called a jeweler and told him that I am refining polishing dirt and he said he is also going to that person that melts in front of the customer and he said the process takes 3 hours but they don't add any collectors.
He said he leaves the flux there because if looks clear and no gold there
I told him the story 4metals told us and he just listened and said I will try you next time.
I also called anothe jeweler and he takes is dirt to Johnson Matthew
He said if he can wait while I refine for him.
He can trust JM but not me.
The mistrust here is unbelievable, and I don't blame them because too many jewelers were ripped off
I am thinking of trying to get there business.
They all want to be there when the refining takes place so I said why not give them what they want.
The only problem is that once they lean how to do this, they can always go up to their country home and refine over there
and they will not come back
Does anyone have a better idea.
The stories of refiners ripping off jewelers is common everywhere.
That's why the honest guys is also affected by those things.
I called a jeweler and told him that I am refining polishing dirt and he said he is also going to that person that melts in front of the customer and he said the process takes 3 hours but they don't add any collectors.
He said he leaves the flux there because if looks clear and no gold there
I told him the story 4metals told us and he just listened and said I will try you next time.
I also called anothe jeweler and he takes is dirt to Johnson Matthew
He said if he can wait while I refine for him.
He can trust JM but not me.
The mistrust here is unbelievable, and I don't blame them because too many jewelers were ripped off
I am thinking of trying to get there business.
They all want to be there when the refining takes place so I said why not give them what they want.
The only problem is that once they lean how to do this, they can always go up to their country home and refine over there
and they will not come back
Does anyone have a better idea.
Golddie refining sweeps isn't the easiest or quickest process if your talking polishing buff papers or floor sweeps and doing it in one day is almost impossible. To get a decent result it needs to be incinerated, slowly to avoid losses, milled and screened before you start any refining process. The actual recovery of the metals in acids is also a slow process and needs constant attention at the start as the solution heats up to avoid hot spots in your beakers and regular stirring helps to get the acid into all the powder. The filtering alone can take hours even with decent vacuum pumps and large filter beds so I'd be tempted not to promise a day turnaround.
If I was in your situation I'd try offering to refine their lemel/ bench sweeps/ filings whatever description they use, this is much easier to complete in a day. If you incinerate it first then you can go straight to AR and recover the gold very quickly but will leave the silver as a chloride and any PGMs in the solution which can be cemented out later. Most jewellers are only interested in the gold unless they work with a lot of platinum or silver and a fast accurate result on their lemel may be your way to impress, but be aware that the recovered gold may not be 999 so another refining may be required if they want to re use it. The silver and any PGMs may be your profit and the silver chloride will have a small gold content also so it's a balancing act to get the deal good for both parties but it might get your foot in the door.
If I was in your situation I'd try offering to refine their lemel/ bench sweeps/ filings whatever description they use, this is much easier to complete in a day. If you incinerate it first then you can go straight to AR and recover the gold very quickly but will leave the silver as a chloride and any PGMs in the solution which can be cemented out later. Most jewellers are only interested in the gold unless they work with a lot of platinum or silver and a fast accurate result on their lemel may be your way to impress, but be aware that the recovered gold may not be 999 so another refining may be required if they want to re use it. The silver and any PGMs may be your profit and the silver chloride will have a small gold content also so it's a balancing act to get the deal good for both parties but it might get your foot in the door.
Hi nickvc
Thanks for your reply.
From talking to people I am realizing that refining is not as easy as reading the threads in this forum.
For example the jeweler tells me that how can I trust you.
But he can trust JM.
He is giving his dirt blindly to a refiner he does not know and there is no guarantee that JM is not going to cheat him.
Thanks for your reply.
From talking to people I am realizing that refining is not as easy as reading the threads in this forum.
For example the jeweler tells me that how can I trust you.
But he can trust JM.
He is giving his dirt blindly to a refiner he does not know and there is no guarantee that JM is not going to cheat him.
They might not cheat him but he will get hit with minimum charges which can be considerable. When I worked for JM here in the UK we charged pennies to treat sweeps but the returns were laughable or sad if they were your sweeps and I remember we had a rack in the safe full of sweeps bars with no owners....nice bonus!
Nick is right JM is a big house and they will have minimum charges and minimum deductions and all they will do is burn crush and sift and give you a sample on the same day. You will still need to have that sample assayed.
If he says the flux is clear he is probably just yessing you to death, the sweeps in the slags are as opaque as they can be. Generally you would never see flakes of gold as the gold in the rouge is microscopically small to begin with.
If he says the flux is clear he is probably just yessing you to death, the sweeps in the slags are as opaque as they can be. Generally you would never see flakes of gold as the gold in the rouge is microscopically small to begin with.
I asked that jeweler who went to the refiner that melted their polishing dirt ,how much did he charge and he said $2,000.
3 hours of melting and plus he keep the flux.
The refiner told him that you can take the flux but as you can see there is nothing there
So the jeweler said
keep it.
3 hours of melting and plus he keep the flux.
The refiner told him that you can take the flux but as you can see there is nothing there
So the jeweler said
keep it.
I assume it was a relatively small lot. How much gold did he get back? Then you can figure what percentage he was paid to recover impure gold which had to be sold for a discount.
He got hosed, there is room for you to work there.
He got hosed, there is room for you to work there.
Hi 4metals
I should have asked him but I didn't
Anyway I can ask him next time I see him.
I might consider making my place like a self serve refinery.
Polishing dirt will take at least 2 days so they will have to take that into consideration
Charge them a certain fee and they can do whatever they want and I can provide assistance.
Some of them will not come back again
Because once they learn they will not need me or my place
But some will come back
I should have asked him but I didn't
Anyway I can ask him next time I see him.
I might consider making my place like a self serve refinery.
Polishing dirt will take at least 2 days so they will have to take that into consideration
Charge them a certain fee and they can do whatever they want and I can provide assistance.
Some of them will not come back again
Because once they learn they will not need me or my place
But some will come back
Probably not that black and white....these guys are jewellers not refiners so don't think they will want to change track...given them a few dangerous AR fumes and a small sniff thereof and most will leave it to you, just be sensible on your charges and treat them well and you will get plenty of work!
Let me get this straight, you're willing to let someone you barely know come into your refining space and handle acids and perform all the tasks required for a fee?
How do you spell LIABILITY?
How do you spell LIABILITY?
There is also the danger of being robbed
They could come and survey the shop and than robbery could happen
I say be careful
or take a picture of everyone that comes into our shop with a cell phone and record it somewhere and let them know about that.
They could come and survey the shop and than robbery could happen
I say be careful
or take a picture of everyone that comes into our shop with a cell phone and record it somewhere and let them know about that.
Emmjae
Well-known member
golddie said:
Hi Golddie,
I can’t tell you how to get this guy’s business but here is a suggestion based on how I got my foot in the door with my first customer. What I did was offer to do a sample for him at no charge or percentage of the gold. This shows that you do know what you’re doing and also gives him some confidence in your honesty.
I would ask him for a good mixed sample of say 5% or 10% of his next load of material. This will allow your customer to compare the yields between you and the other refiner. More than likely you will show him a far greater percentage of the yield. If so I don’t think you’ll have much of a problem getting his business in the future. Good luck.
Mike
goldnugget77
Well-known member
Hi Emmjae
I did hcl a few times
than I did AR for about 1 hour and siphon
than I did AR for about 6 hour and siphon
Now I am planning on siphoning the AR and than pouring all that dirt into a filter and washing it with water
Than I my Ar will be kind of diluted so I guess I will have to boil it so I have less water and than I will precipitate
Does this sound correct to you or could I do things differently
Thanks
I did hcl a few times
than I did AR for about 1 hour and siphon
than I did AR for about 6 hour and siphon
Now I am planning on siphoning the AR and than pouring all that dirt into a filter and washing it with water
Than I my Ar will be kind of diluted so I guess I will have to boil it so I have less water and than I will precipitate
Does this sound correct to you or could I do things differently
Thanks
Emmjae
Well-known member
goldnugget77 said:
Hi goldnugget77
As Harold said...DO NOT BOIL to evaporate. It's sounding like you’re on the correct path but I don't have enough details to give you an accurate answer. As I said in previous posts this was my second attempt at polishing wastes. I am by no means an expert.
If you haven’t do so yet, please do a forum search on polishing sweeps and you will find excellent information under Harold V’s posts. I followed his instructions to the best of my capabilities and had very good results.
Mike
