KCN setup questions

[Lou]

I did mean incinerate. Do that (in the presence of oxygen) and all volatiles are gone. Forget chasing it any other way.

 

[Juan Manuel Arcos Frank]

Shor International,Tecnhistrip Au,the german Doktor who charged his consultations,my Peruvian brothers that sell their silver recovery process for radiographies,Elsevier that sells all its articles in $33 USD and so for,all of them p****d me off to no end because they make money with our ignorance.Let us take off Technicstrip Au´s mask:

What they sell is a mixure of alkaly cyanide (sodium or potassium),an organic oxidant (meta Sodium Nitro Bencene Sulfonate,obviously called m-SNBS) and some lead oxide,called lithargirium.This mixure is sold in Mexico(called "cianuro estabilizado"=stabilized cyanide) at $ 500 mexican pesos/kg when its value does not exceeed $ 50 mexican pesos if you make it by your own with the aforementioned ingredients.This is the reason why this kind of companies are our enemies:THEY WANT TO STEAL OUR MONEY.Do you want to prepare what Technicstrip Au sells?..let it be:

42 gr of alkaly cyanide (sodium or potassium)
7 gr of m-SNBS
1 gr of lead oxide
TOTAL 50 gr

Observing all cautions about cyanide handling,mix all the powders,a salmon color powder will be formed,then dissolve the powder in 1 lt of tap water.This solution works for 3 kg og golden pins.

The safety instructions for cyanide gold recovery process have been posted by GSP,take a look to all his cyanide´s posts before starting this process.

Member of this Forum,this is a fight between great companies versus people like you and me,nobody should remain neutral,Are you with us or against us?...join me...remember our motto: "ALL SUBSTANCES TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE FORUM".

Kindest regards.

Manuel

 

[goldsilverpro]

Here are some of the patents on it.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=OIQwAAAAEBAJ&dq=3935005

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=DgguAAAAEBAJ&dq=4483739

I might mention that what Manuel identified as m-SNBS has several different names: meta-nitrobenzoic acid sodium salt; meta-nitrobenzoic acid sodium sulfonate; meta-nitro sodium benzoate (I think). I've usually seen it listed as m-NBSS.

For the refiner, it's not necessary to add the lead or some of the other chemicals in the patents. If you don't, it is easier to get all the gold out, with zinc. I have been very successful using NaCN or KCN, m-NBSS, and a little 35% H2O2 (about 20 ml/gal). My formula was similar to Manuel's, but with no lead and about twice as much m-NBSS. It works faster when warm (about 130F-140F), but it will work at 70F. You will get a little etching of the copper but, who cares.

 

[g_axelsson]

The only thing missing now is for lasersteve to bag it and sell it on his website.

:lol:

/Göran

 

[butcher]

Juan Manuel Arcos Frank,
this is good to expose a bandit of our people's hard earned money,
company's should make a profit on what they work for, but to take a known process, and common chemicals, and sell them for extremely high prices, promoting magical formula's, is wrong, and these crooks need exposed, Juan thank you.
How can they sell cyanide such a dangerous substance, and with people who may not always follow their instructions, these people can easily poison themselves from getting wise and experimenting.
I have never used shor products, this company seems to be getting common chemicals and processes, then selling them to people, like snake oil salesmen.

TAR AND FEATHER THEM.

 

[Juan Manuel Arcos Frank]

GSP,my Dear Friend:

Yes,Sir!!!!...what I called m-NBSS is really m-NBSS as you have said.This powder is very common in dyestuffs industry.

All what I know about alkaly cyanide gold process I have learned it from you.I do thank you and I do appreciatte all what you have done for me.

Have a nice day.

Your friend:
Manuel

g-axelsson:

LOL!!!!!!!!...Steve´s methods are pretty good and are safer than cyanide method.Anyway,if Steve wants the cyanide method he just needs to talk with GSP(they,both,are good friends) and the result will be an extraordinary useful DVD about cyanide gold process.

Gud välsigne dig.

Manuel

Butcher:

You are welcome,that is what friends are for.Join me,I need your help and knowledge to make available all substances to all Forum´s members.

Kindest regards.

Manuel

 

[johnon]

Just a thought, you may be lookin at benzo triazoles or benzthiazoles. can search uspo w/ terms, might be helpful.

 

[Rickthenewb]

I really appreciate the help from everyone. This week I am purchasing all the needed ingredients.

I plan on trying out a 1 gallon solution with
160 g of either KCN or NaCN (whatever is cheaper)
53 g of m-nbss
20 mL of 35% H2O2

I have some questions if anyone might be able to help.
What is the expected saturation (i.e. how much gold is expected to be held in 1 gallon)
What is the best method of dropping gold out. Should I just sprinkle in zinc and let settle for 24 hours. Is their a color change, is there a certain amount of time this needs to be done in. I am just looking for some signs to look for. Also is rinsing and boiling the gold with water and h2o2 enough to clean it. I plan on just using a plastic hole filled bucket and placing it into the solution for about 2 minutes and then dunking in another water filled bucket for rinsing (in a fume hood of course) Any comments are accepted as I have never done this before.

rick

 

[goldsilverpro]

I plan on trying out a 1 gallon solution with
160 g of either KCN or NaCN (whatever is cheaper)
53 g of m-nbss
20 mL of 35% H2O2

I have some questions if anyone might be able to help.
What is the expected saturation (i.e. how much gold is expected to be held in 1 gallon)
What is the best method of dropping gold out. Should I just sprinkle in zinc and let settle for 24 hours. Is their a color change, is there a certain amount of time this needs to be done in. I am just looking for some signs to look for. Also is rinsing and boiling the gold with water and h2o2 enough to clean it. I plan on just using a plastic hole filled bucket and placing it into the solution for about 2 minutes and then dunking in another water filled bucket for rinsing (in a fume hood of course) Any comments are accepted as I have never done this before.

You should be able to get about 2 oz of gold dissolved in a gallon of this CN solution.

Since you're using m-NBSS, I would try it first without the peroxide. I might also use a little more m-NBSS. Even though the peroxide will make it strip faster, it will tend to destroy the cyanide. You'll get more life out of the cyanide without the peroxide. I used peroxide but it is tricky to know how much to use - and when. I would also use hot tap water to make up the solution and the start stripping as soon as it is mixed. The "dunking bucket" thing sounds good but go slow with the dunking or you'll slop the solution out. I would put the buckets in plastic trays in case this happens. I would also do a double or triple rinse.

It will be hard to manipulate those buckets under a fume hood. It might be better to do it outside if there are no dogs or other animals around. Try not to spill anything on the ground. Cyanide is sweet and animals like it. I once saw a prize bull eat some grass that had cyanide on it. He got about 10 feet away before he died.

To drop the gold out, first combine the stripping solution and the rinses and raise the pH to 12 with a little NaOH solution - it shouldn't take much. Try not to go above 12 or it will take more zinc. I you don't have a way of checking pH, add about an ounce of NaOH per gallon.

Next, sprinkle on the zinc. I would do this using one of those small flour sifters, that you squeeze, to break up any clumps. It should take somewhere between 1 to 2 times as much zinc as you have gold - weigh the zinc you think you need before putting it into the flour sifter. Stir constantly. Try to rig up a stirrer that lifts the solution. You get better stirring action and you can see the color of the precipitate as you raise it up from the bottom. A cheap plastic plunger will work - or course, don't stick the plunger on the bottom. Go slow or you will slop the solution out on the upstroke.

When the gold has all been dropped, there are two visual indicators. First, the foam created by stirring will usually go from yellow to white, but that isn't always reliable. When the gold starts to drop, the powder seen when stirring will be brown. At some point, when most of the gold has dropped, the color will start turning gray from the excess zinc. When you see no brown and the powder is fully gray, stop adding the zinc.

I let the powder settle overnight. Sometimes, though, some of the gold can redissolve. To prevent this, I hung a zinc bar in the solution.

Either siphon, pour, or dip off the solution away from the settled powder. I usually siphoned off as much as I could and then dipped the rest out. Filter the powder and rinse it several times to get the cyanide solution out of it, preferably with hot water. Put the powder, filter paper and all, into a bucket. UNDER THE FUME HOOD, cover the powder with water and add a very small quantity of nitric acid from a small beaker. You should see an immediate reaction when the nitric attacks the zinc. When the reaction slows down, sir it and add a little more nitric and repeat. When an addition of nitric produces no reaction, stop adding nitric.

After stripping, you are very likely to have some copper dissolved in the solution. The copper will also drop with the zinc. Nitric is about the only thing that will dissolve both the Cu and Zn. Either weak sulfuric or HCl will dissolve the Zn but not the Cu. I don't know where the H2O2 idea came from.

The remaining gold powder should be brown at this point. Filter it, rinse it well, and then purify the powder using the standard aqua regia process.

Good luck!

 

[Rickthenewb]

Hey GSP thanx again for all the info, right now I have a respirator for HCL, SO2 and other acid gases, Will these cartridges be good for HCN or should i purchase a diffferent set. Just want to be on the safe side.


rick

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

i am one of the users of the propriety solution. " it is expensive " i often use Sodium Cyanide , but this works well also. i clean my targets, in this case to remove a medium plating of Gold. these are Cathode targets used in gas fuel cells, and are left over as being damaged, or just not usable, or not built into product. this is a one time deal on these as the Company has closed its doors. this example is fifty targets, to be chemically stripped of gold over stainless steel, "
316 " probably 316L, i give a general clean, then weigh a ten of, then a ten of with the gold removed. keep the records, reduce to per unit in Mill grams, x gram price x my 85 perc3ent recovery efficiency, losses are drag out, reheating, general handling, and over wishful expectations. the material is thus :>

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

My colleagues from Silver plating, say to me " thomas " i use my second name on the internet . Thomas, use a small set up, and do as many batches as needed. make it a process of repetition, and don't rush it. and work carefully, the size of jar i use is here :>

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

i heat distilled water in a kettle, fill the jar, just to cover the targets and take out on my veranda, when a good wind is blowing, " i do use the sealed lid approach " latching lid for a slow stripping process, i add very little stripper to solution as i have time to do this, overnight.

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

the soap has baking soda in it. i rinse my targets in a second jug, then use an old face cloth to absorb the soapy baking powder mixture. then everything, in this case the fifty targets goes outside.

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

i put on a liquid silicone skin protector, rub it on my bare hands, then i put on latex gloves, i wear safety goggles also, and an absorbent apron. i use the siphon, to pull carefully liquid from the stripper, and put into the jar with the targets to be stripped. " carefully " no need to rush, i seat myself, have my wipe cloth with baking soda at the ready, and put in a little starter, i am using an non gradient siphon, as i am using a slow additive process. , the jar holds the heat reasonable " from the hot water kettle " but you may elect for a small low power hot plate.

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

So as you refiners know, on a clean surface cyanide works very well, " i DO NOT mix the Acid and Cyanide Process i have used acid on ground chips, and then washed several times, before using Cyanide, but please keep the acid away from Cyanide work. i hope to have some values, to report, plating per surface area, plating recovery over several base materials , one being stainless steel, the other titanium . i have this to process another day.

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

this is a sample of process, with pictures. Please write your process down on paper. execute with linearity and caution, use a gram scale or better, average your weights. and keep your drag out liquid to neutralize. i paid a hundred dollars for my gallon of stripper " i know expensive " i have made my own, and the above formula here, is exact " imo " DO NOT boil your Cyanide , or your mixture, be a good processor cautious and have some good return, for a vacation for yourself and your loved one.

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

a few thoughts on deplating . the stripping process, works best before boiling. " do not boil "
the stripping process will work at room temperature. i use a small hot plate with good temperature control, and run at 140 to 160 F. others use 190,
in any case the active stripper can only hold a saturated amount. slowly adding stripper, is my method of choice.
the resulting solution, from clean material, primarily plated with gold, is a clear liquid.
one forum member puts it this way " i can read a news paper through the solution " which in my case comes out to slightly lemonade colour, just a hint of lemon colour.
Don't be frustrated, by having to put in more stripper, that just means your targets, to be stripped, have still to be deplateded of gold,
my current batch is half done, i guestamate 4 grams, in .5 Liters of stripper, .7 Liters of distilled water. i use a liquid scale for my solutions.
i just use my uncalibrated siphon for transferring stripper to my jar in process. be patient with the cyanide process, excess cyanide is not going to help you,
keep your solution and drag out water secure, this is your investment handle it carefully,

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

stripping is a function of time by stripping solution, for a completed value, in this case gold plated targets, over stainless steel. my good read is always at my hands reach. and i like the function of a manual filter, with activated carbon.

 

[GOLDbuyerCA]

you can see from the targets here, of an incomplete recovery, gold and gold chloride left on targets, which is incomplete testing, incomplete recovery and needs to back into the stripping tank.