making nitric acid

[Lou]

It had better be really good for that price!

It's still not even cheap at 20 a gallon!

Nitric should cost $5-6 if purchased from Brenntag or Univar.

It costs me about $20/gal if I get NaNO3 from the garden shop for $1.50 a pound and distill it with sulfuric. I can get a gallon of 95% sulfuric for $14.

 

[The Refiner49er]

Hey Lou!

I would like to get set up to buy nitric acid from one of the major chemical companies. Univar is right across the river from me.

How do you get set up with them to purchase? I have gotten the runaround when inquiring the purchase of it.

"Homeland Security" and such.... I am not a terrorist!!!!

Thanks!

John

 

[Lou]

A business license and perhaps 20 minutes talking to their account or sales manager about what you are doing with it. Don't forget the usual cordialities.

 

[OMG]

I read that ammonia and ozone makes ammonium nitrate (and water and oxygen). 2NH3 + 4O3 -> NH4NO3 + 4O2 + H2O
so,
would ammonia and peroxide accomplish the same thing (except making more water instead of oxygen?)
or thinking further ahead...
Ammonia and caro's acid as a route to nitric (and ammonium sulfate)?

 

[Lou]

Ozone is a ridiculously strong oxidiser. Hydrogen peroxide is made by adding ozone to water per

O3 + H2O --> H2O2 + O2

That said, I doubt adding H2O2 to ammonia would work at all, at least in the concentrations any of us can get. I think it is more likely that we can make HNO3 from oxidation of ammonia over platinum wire or perhaps by coronal discharge to make NOx which is then bubbled into water.

Lou

 

[lazersteve]

Lou,

I once tried making nitric using coronal discharge and it is very difficult to do.

I used an air pump to pass the air over the Jacobs ladder and in fact it did form NOx. The discharge was then passed into distilled water.

The problem was that the quantity of NOx formed was so little that it would take forever to make any appreciable quantity of HNO3 at a decent concentration. Perhaps if I had tried different spark gap arrangements I may have been able to make enough NOx to make it work. It may have been that more O2 was required as air is only about 20% O2.

Steve

 

[Lou]

There have been several well-documented instances of it working. I don't have the links ready, but a simple search at sciencemadness will show some threads where people have made it in the 50mL+ range.


I think I could have a crack at the Ostwald Process, as I have 90Pt10Rh wire in abundance. I can also dig up the stainless needed to try this at 700C and 65psi. Is it worth doing though? No, it isn't...I'd rather distill it from an alkali nitrate or just buy it!

 

[eagle2]

Ray.

Harcross chemical is in Kansas City. I got a 30 gal drum from them 15 yrs ago. It was a few dollars a gallon, but the drum deposit is very high.

You will need a business letterhead and some communication.

Al

 

[istari9]

No problem I have several business names and Lic frm Mo.
I am in my time off so its off to research I go.

I will keep you all posted and I can dicker with the best of them.
Ray

 

[eagle2]

Small correction, its: Harcros chemical.

You know I think we live about a hundred miles from each other. :!:

Al

 

[OMG]

How about making nitric as well as sulfuric from ammonium sulfate and ozone?
here's a diagram of what I would like to try.

 

[OMG]

Anyone see issues with a set up like that? I might need to put something in there to circulate the ammonia and ozone.

And Lou, you said you had some Pt wire, would you want to sell me some?

 

[lazersteve]

OMG,

Here's an article on ammonium sulfate decomposition by the US Atomic Energy Commission that may help you along:

Decomposing Ammonium Sulfate

Steve

 

[OMG]

Thanks Steve, that method would allow a lower temperature, at the expense of the sulfuric acid.
I think if I can melt the ammonium sulfate and keep it at a temperature below H2SO4's boiling point, it should be okay. I might need to have some H2SO4 (not 98%) in there at the start to help absorb the H2SO4 that is being made.
If the temperature was between 280 and 290 C it should work.

I found something interesting about TiO2 as well, under UV light it will oxidize NOx's to nitrates, so maybe I could incorporate this into the design as well to keep the levels of NOx's low.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noxer_block

 

[viacin]

a slightly old post, but if anyone is interested in buying nitric in bulk from univar, it can be done online if you have a business.
http://www.univarusa.com/vwr-inc/partnerregistration.nsf/customer?openform

If you tell them you are making biofuels, they are less curious on the phone too.

 

[Noxx]

Do you have an idea if they ship to Canada ?

 

[viacin]

I'm not sure, but their headquarters is in Vancouver, here is their canadian website:
http://www.univarcanada.com/

And here is their distribution sites and contact info:
http://www.univarcanada.com/distribution.htm

Unfortunantly, I cannot find online ordering in canada? Seems odd. It was kinda buried on the USA site. They have Electronic Data Interchange (I supposed this would be online ordering) But you must call to set it up.

 

[EVO-AU]

Dr. Charles: I just received a shipment of 70% ACS nitric acid. Can I use it as is or should I dilute it down. It will be used in A/R. Evo-au

 

[Lou]

I don't know who Dr. Charles is, but you would be better served by diluting your nitric acid by half. So in 1 liter of solution you have 500mL of 70% nitric with 500mL of distilled water.


Lou

 

[viacin]

"Dr Charles" Is a peddler on ebay of gold refining chemicals and whatnot. His "free" advice that he uses to push his products leaves you with more questions than answers. He provides small tidbits of facts with no "how-to" about it at all, without any warnings of the dangers. I highly doubt he is still visiting this forum.