My new HHO Torch

[HAuCl4]

Thanks for the plans rusty. An eye opener is that almost everyone that has built one of those small HHOs has had one explosion or more. :shock:

Good thing they were small HHO setups...

Love your signature stihl88. Maybe add some of the precipitant reactions too?. SMB, sodium nitrite, and oxalic acid?. 8)

 

[stihl88]

Cheers, ive tweaked the Sig a bit since you posted. I plan on adding the AR ingredients to dissolve 1g of Gold instead of 1 Toz.
I found an old symbol for T Oz, looks ok i say.

 

[samuel-a]

Here is the photos:

Cell without the bubbler



Nozzle tip and flashback arrestor

 

[HAuCl4]

What type of electrolyte works best?. How do you get rid of the sodium/yellow flame?. If it can be made safe I want to try it!. 2800 C can make silver and copper boil or oxidize, and leave a pure gold crystal behind. :idea: 8) :shock:

Torches instead of induction. Gold instead of silicon. Run upside down to keep the higher melting point PGMs on the bottom zone and the pure single crystal of gold on the top. :idea:

Thanks for the ideas guys!. 8)

 

[stihl88]

Looks great Sam, what sort of output are you getting from that setup? Nice hot flame yeah?

HAuCl4, apparently potassium hydroxide is 20% better again than sodium hydroxide (Lye, Drano).
Also, have you ever seen these gold crystals? Ive seen them make the silicon Crystals for wafer production but i wasn't aware that it was possible for any other material.

 

[HAuCl4]

Thanks stihl. Wikipedia says it can be done for other metals:

"The Czochralski process is a method of crystal growth used to obtain single crystals of semiconductors (e.g. silicon, germanium and gallium arsenide), metals (e.g. palladium, platinum, silver, gold), salts, and synthetic gemstones."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czochralski_process

I haven't seen it, only read about it. With the typical "secrecy" prevalent forever in the precious metals industry, I don't have any hopes to see it, except if I can make it myself. It would be fast, cheap, and very efficient I'm guessing one inquartation and parting with nitric and one "zone pass" to get 9999+ without AR, dissolving gold in liquids, etc, etc. Probably the zone pass rig will not be straightforward to implement though, but if the torches work, it should not be expensive. :roll:

 

[rusty]

How do you get rid of the sodium/yellow flame?.

Thanks for the ideas guys!. 8)

Get rid of the yellow flame with more efficient scrubbing. A tall scrubber with fine mesh screen installed to diffuse the gas. Instead of a handful of large bubbles rising in the scrubber you now have thousands of tiny ones coming into contact with the water.

You could use a capillary tube, use multiple tubes bundled to handle large volumes of gas being produced.

Every refrigerator, freezer and air conditioner discarded to trash will have one or more capillary tubes of various hole ID's

One could solder the capillary tubes into the end of a larger copper pipe with varying lengths protruding. When attached to the the scrubber each tube could be arranged in a petal fashion underneath the water. FYI I would still install a fine mesh screen maybe several.

The key to good scrubbing is to break the bubbles into smaller ones.

What is Capillary Tube in Refrigerators?

Capillary tube is one of the most commonly used throttling devices in the refrigeration and the air conditioning systems. The capillary tube is a copper tube of very small internal diameter. It is of very long length and it is coiled to several turns so that it would occupy less space.

The internal diameter of the capillary tube used for the refrigeration and air conditioning applications varies from 0.5 to 2.28 mm (0.020 to 0.09 inches). Capillary tube used as the throttling device in the domestic refrigerators, deep freezers, water coolers and air conditioners.

Read more: http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/mechanical/articles/58420.aspx#ixzz1C4TH5B4U


Regards
Gill

 

[samuel-a]

Looks great Sam, what sort of output are you getting from that setup?

Thanks stihl88,

I haven't measured LPM yet, an educated guess will be at about 1/2 LPM

Nice hot flame yeah?

That's my problem for now, the one time it did light, for 2 seconds (before explosion ), it was very much the same as yours, deep orange flame.

Thanks again rusty for the tip.

 

[Platdigger]

To get rid of the yellow flame, how about using a different electrolyte?
Like phosphoric acid?
I found this on Wiki: "Phosphoric acid is used with distilled water (2–3 drops per gallon) as an electrolyte in oxyhydrogen (HHO) generators."

 

[rusty]

To get rid of the yellow flame, how about using a different electrolyte?
Like phosphoric acid?
I found this on Wiki: "Phosphoric acid is used with distilled water (2–3 drops per gallon) as an electrolyte in oxyhydrogen (HHO) generators."

Using phosphoric acid fro the electrolyte , do you know if the oxyhydrogen produced is pure or have we merely traded one evil for another.

I figure the solution to purifying the oxyhrdrogen is through better scrubbing.

regards
G

 

[HAuCl4]

This 19th century guy liked to keep oxygen and hydrogen separate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoffman_electrolysis_apparatus

How are modern HHO designs better than this?. They aren't safer, but given that there are commercial HHO generators, etc. for sale, they must have some type of advantage over the older, safer, design?. :shock:

re. Phosphoric acid. That would remove the sodium/potassium from the flame. Nice idea. 8). The 19th century guy used sulphuric. :shock:

No reason those electrodes in the diagram can't be inserted from the top instead of the bottom.

edit: What metal are you guys using for the anodes and cathodes?.

 

[samuel-a]

At the moment I'm using 304 SS.
It is recommended to use 316L SS.

For best long lasting performance i guess the electrodes should be plated with nickel (and maybe also Pt on top of the nickel)

 

[rusty]

I've been trying to locate a supplier to the lead acid battery re-builders, years ago you could buy new plastic cases with tops. Haven't had any luck, so if any of you live close to a battery rebuild shop that has cases available I would like to purchase one for my HHO dry cell.

For simplicity the new battery case would have been perfect, If none are available, just have to make something up.

Anyhow this is how I envision the plate arrangement in my HHO dry cell.

 

[stihl88]

Rusty, did you design this?

I think that the battery case should provide an airtight chamber for your needs.
Personally, i would like a housing that i could see through but it's certainly not imperative.

HHO experimenters are saying now that the closer the SS plates the better (More efficient) they say that the plates should be approx 1mm apart.
My cells plates are approx 3mm apart but i will try a thinner gasket material to achieve the 1mm gap when i get around to it. I might get around to this when i open it up and clean her out.

Next i want to make my cells electrolyte level to the full height of the cell so that it is using more than just
60% of the surface area on the SS plates. To do this i will likely drill another hole in the Plexiglass opposite the existing hole
and tap another fitting into the hole than run two short pieces of hose on both fittings upwards to a T fitting, from here
i will need to design another bubbler/ filler setup.

 

[qst42know]

Hey Rusty.

Just a couple things. I don't think a HHO cell needs to be divided into individual cells like a battery. The inside bends being so close at the bottom of your cell would be difficult to create accurately even with special tooling.

 

[rusty]

Rusty, did you design this?

No, it is not of my design, what differs here from my thoughts in design are that the plates are folder over.

I have not has that much experience working with stainless steel sheet, it tends to have memory when bent, annealing maybe the solution for making those sharp bends uniform.

I do not like the Bob Boyce design currently being used.

Regards
Gill

 

[samuel-a]

Anyhow this is how I envision the plate arrangement in my HHO dry cell.

This is, as i understand it from the sketch, actually a wet (submerged) cell, even though it is encased .

I think that the concept of dry cell is that the electrodes them self are the encasing element (of the electrolyte) so that in fact you do not have current leakage (that produce heat) from the edges of the electrodes.

 

[stihl88]

Samuel is correct, the Dry cell is more efficient than the submerged cell.

 

[Dan72ccx]

Hi to all
Sorry for my pore English cut you dont speck Ukraine or Russian :mrgreen:
Me and my mate dezayne one of HHO sistem that produs 1.5 lpm by 10amp and 5lpm a min by 30-40amps i dont think any one have done one lyke aure one can run 24/7 and not ovehiting :mrgreen: , werry offishin flame i geting from my torch is 300 mm and we youth that flashback arestor and it's working fayn
http://www.gassafegear.co.uk/pdfs/Regulators,%20Flowmeters%20&%20Flashback%20Arrestors/Flashback%20Arrestors/BOC%20Flashback%20Arrestors%203%20page.pdf
Dan

 

[Dan72ccx]

Sorry fogot to menshenet i am youthing in my car too :roll: