My "witches brew" of AP has turned on me...

[1mysurveymail]

My "witches brew" of AP has turned on me...

Hello and THANK YOU to all the guys on this forum, and a special thank you to the ones who respond to my plea for "HELP." I was told that a post should only have one LOL. That was mine.

I started this little alchemical adventure a few weeks ago. Prompted by my desire to rid myself of 50-70 computer towers, boxes of keyboards, and miscellaneous electronics. In truth, my quest started on youtube.com, where I saw some insanely dangerous practices IMHO, and HEAPS OF GOLD. It was the HEAPS OF GOLD that gave me the fever. So I watched youtube videos, as I tore into those computers, separating everything into many many separate categories. All the while I was gleefully nipping the "gold fingers" off video cards, modem cards, network cards, and from the guts of laptops. I really have caught "THE GOLD FEVER." Like a true addict, I began seeing little gold flecks and pins everywhere.

So before I found y'all and this amazing forum I started my first batch of "acid peroxide" and yielded about 7 grams of gold finger foils, now sitting pretty in a little jar to motivate me to keep at it. Then I did what every poorly read, half mad, newbie does... I just dumped a load of miscellaneous mixed pins, cell phone boards, and anything golden within site into my shiny green bucket of acid peroxide. I keep saying "acid peroxide" even though I know now it is a dark brownish green (saturated?) bucket of "CuCl and CuCl2" although I suspect there is lead, solder, tin, steel, and some other nasty metals in there... BUT I CAN STILL SEE TINY GOLD particles floating around in this witches bucket of brew. I tried to filter out the gold using a primitive rig made from a dissected Mr. Coffee machine, and cheap coffee filters... to no avail. I just get some of the larger gold particles, and some grey sludge, which I now believe is CuCl (1). Although it is probably contaminated with iron, tin, lead, solder, silver, palladium, platinum, tantalum, and only God knows what else. As a funny aside, last week I watched a youtube video by "originalfeets" that showed how to "cement" copper out of AP by placing a piece of stainless steel into it. The next day, "originalfeets" had a copper plated stainless knife. Meanwhile my "stainless steel" spatula had completely dissolved, so I laugh out loud, and cried a little on the inside.

So I dug deeper into this forum, but everyone here who knows the CORRECT ways to do things were using AR, incineration, other sophisticated processes, chemicals, and equipment I don't have. I kept searching, and kept bumping into the same posts, that seemed not to address my situation specifically.

THEN, I tried reading Hoke, but was more confused because I was already far down a different method to start over (I think), I tried following the pdf's I found here, but I am so FIXATED on the gold, and bleary eyed from all the new terminology that I am resorting to just begging for help to recover these gold bits that are too fine to filter.

I really specifically need help in "dropping the gold" I believe to be dissolved in my blackish green liquid, and how get those fine gold particles out of solution, and ready to process in a proper manner. PLEASE.

I have a fish tank air bubbler standing by. I have a hot plate, and some newly acquired glass coffee urns, some crappy coffee filters, all the safety gear, and a big plastic storage "containment box" to keep all the toxic stuff in one place. I also bought a crazy torch so one day soon I can confabulate an incinerator/furnace. I have read that "Stump Out" = sodium Meta Bi-sulfite ( I think). I know I can buy battery acid = sulfuric acid nearby, and I think I can find nitric acid too, although I am fascinated by the combination of HCL and "bleach"= sodium hypochlorite = chlorox, = "poor man's AR" and if possible would like to use this to continue. Heck I don't even need to get to 4 9's = 99.99% pure gold. I just want all the gold from these computer segregated out for later refining. For now, I'd be happy to get my bucket of AP cleaned up, and the gold "dropped" before I go completely crazy(ier).

For a moment I thought I had found the answer:
A few nights ago, after hours of reading this forum in the middle of the night, I placed some thin copper plates from a cpu heatsink into my witches brew in the hopes it would help cement the gold, and turn back to nice emerald green. I am lost as to what to do next. I am afraid to start bubbling or heating, because I think it may dissolve the fine gold powder floating in my bucket back into solution. I am afraid to add more HCL or H202 for the same reason.

I still have a bucket of cpu chips, "flat packs," eighty cd-rom drives worth of pins and ribbon cables, and three recycle bins full of motherboards yet to render.

To sum it up, I am just plain lost.

BUT, I am so THANKFUL to have found this forum, and I want to end my first post on a positive note... so I will say that my little jar of gold foils is inspiring me, I am going to print out all the PDF's and Hoke and re-read everything, and most importantly, I just didn't throw all these computers into a landfill, I made money by selling the steel computer cases, the aluminum heat sinks, and copper, so far. AND my workspace although still cluttered, does not have stacks of computer, but rather boxes of separated computer parts, ready to render up their precious metals, I hope, with your help.

So thanks again, and I await your help, I also promise to keep reading until my eyes bleed from weariness. Please no flames. I have tried to take pictures to accompany this post, but the sun is so bright, and the photos so poor, I thought they would just confuse the issue.

Sincerely,
Chris = 1mysurveymail[/size]

P.S. I just realized there are like 57 help pages... I will read more, but if someone reads this first, please help. Thanks

 

[FrugalRefiner]

My "witches brew" of AP has turned on me...

Hello and THANK YOU to all the guys on this forum, and a special thank you to the ones who respond to my plea for "HELP." I was told that a post should only have one LOL. That was mine.

I started this little alchemical adventure a few weeks ago. Prompted by my desire to rid myself of 50-70 computer towers, boxes of keyboards, and miscellaneous electronics. In truth, my quest started on youtube.com, where I saw some insanely dangerous practices IMHO, and HEAPS OF GOLD. It was the HEAPS OF GOLD that gave me the fever. So I watched youtube videos, as I tore into those computers, separating everything into many many separate categories. All the while I was gleefully nipping the "gold fingers" off video cards, modem cards, network cards, and from the guts of laptops. I really have caught "THE GOLD FEVER." Like a true addict, I began seeing little gold flecks and pins everywhere.

So before I found y'all and this amazing forum I started my first batch of "acid peroxide" and yielded about 7 grams of gold finger foils, now sitting pretty in a little jar to motivate me to keep at it. Then I did what every poorly read, half mad, newbie does... I just dumped a load of miscellaneous mixed pins, cell phone boards, and anything golden within site into my shiny green bucket of acid peroxide. I keep saying "acid peroxide" even though I know now it is a dark brownish green (saturated?) bucket of "CuCl and CuCl2" although I suspect there is lead, solder, tin, steel, and some other nasty metals in there... BUT I CAN STILL SEE TINY GOLD particles floating around in this witches bucket of brew. I tried to filter out the gold using a primitive rig made from a dissected Mr. Coffee machine, and cheap coffee filters... to no avail. I just get some of the larger gold particles, and some grey sludge, which I now believe is CuCl (1). Although it is probably contaminated with iron, tin, lead, solder, silver, palladium, platinum, tantalum, and only God knows what else. As a funny aside, last week I watched a youtube video by "originalfeets" that showed how to "cement" copper out of AP by placing a piece of stainless steel into it. The next day, "originalfeets" had a copper plated stainless knife. Meanwhile my "stainless steel" spatula had completely dissolved, so I laugh out loud, and cried a little on the inside.

So I dug deeper into this forum, but everyone here who knows the CORRECT ways to do things were using AR, incineration, other sophisticated processes, chemicals, and equipment I don't have. I kept searching, and kept bumping into the same posts, that seemed not to address my situation specifically.

THEN, I tried reading Hoke, but was more confused because I was already far down a different method to start over (I think), I tried following the pdf's I found here, but I am so FIXATED on the gold, and bleary eyed from all the new terminology that I am resorting to just begging for help to recover these gold bits that are too fine to filter.

I really specifically need help in "dropping the gold" I believe to be dissolved in my blackish green liquid, and how get those fine gold particles out of solution, and ready to process in a proper manner. PLEASE.

I have a fish tank air bubbler standing by. I have a hot plate, and some newly acquired glass coffee urns, some crappy coffee filters, all the safety gear, and a big plastic storage "containment box" to keep all the toxic stuff in one place. I also bought a crazy torch so one day soon I can confabulate an incinerator/furnace. I have read that "Stump Out" = sodium Meta Bi-sulfite ( I think). I know I can buy batter acid / sulfuric acid nearby, and I think I can find nitric acid too, although I am fascinated by the combination of HCL and "bleach"= sodium hypochlorite = chlorox, and if possible would like to use this "poor man's AR" to continue. Heck I don't even need to get to 4 9's 99.99% pure gold. I just want all the gold from these computer segregated out for later refining. For now, I'd be happy to get my bucket of AP cleaned up, and the gold "dropped" before I go completely crazy(ier).

For a moment I thought I had found the answer:
A few nights ago, after hours of reading this forum in the middle of the night, I placed some thin copper plates from a cpu heatsink into my witches brew in the hopes it would help cement the gold, and turn back to nice emerald green. I am lost as to what to do next. I am afraid to start bubbling or heating, because I think it may dissolve the fine gold powder floating in my bucket back into solution. I am afraid to add more HCL or H202 for the same reason.

I still have a bucket of cpu chips, "flat packs," eighty cd-rom drives worth of pins and ribbon cables, and three recycle bins full of motherboards yet to render.

To sum it up, I am just plain lost.

BUT, I am so THANKFUL to have found this forum, and I want to end my first post on a positive note... so I will say that my little jar of gold foils is inspiring me, I am going to print out all the PDF's and Hoke and re-read everything, and most importantly, I just didn't throw all these computers into a landfill, I made money by selling the steel computer cases, the aluminum heat sinks, and copper.

So thanks again, and I await your help, I also promise to keep reading until my eyes bleed from weariness. Please no flames. I have tried to take pictures to accompany this post, but the sun is so bright, and the photos so poor, I thought they would just confuse the issue.

Sincerely,
Chris = 1mysurveymail

I'll help you with my first suggestion - You don't need to Yell at us. The large font size will get your post ignored by many members.

As far as your questions about your "witch's brew", my suggestion is simply to put a loose fitting lid on it and set it aside in a safe place until you learn how to deal with it. All the answers are here on the forum, but you'll have to do your part by studying the information that's here.

Here are my standard links for new members:

The first rule is to be safe in everything you do. Before you jump into any of the processes you see discussed here, be sure you understand the potential hazards and do everything you can to minimize the risks. Read EVERYTHING in the Safety section of the forum, especially the Dealing with Waste topic. No amount of precious metal is worth jeopardizing your health or the health of those around you.

I strongly encourage all new members to follow the Guided Tour created by LazerSteve. It will provide an introduction to the forum and numerous valuable links including the General Reactions List. Be sure to follow the link to his web site as he has many outstanding videos, a collection of great reference documents, and he sells a lot of the supplies needed to get started including detailed instructional DVDs. Samuel-a also has a lot of videos, guides and tutorials at his web site Gold-N-Scrap.

Download C. M. Hoke's book. There is a digital copy you can read on screen here: Refining Precious Metal Wastes. If you prefer a printed copy, you'll find a link to a printer friendly version in my signature line below. You'll see her book mentioned repeatedly here on the forum for good reason. It is probably the best book ever written for the beginner who wants to learn refining. It is written in layman's terms and will provide a solid foundation that will help you understand everything you read here on the forum. You'll also find a tremendous amount of information in the two Forum Handbooks compiled by aflacglobal, Forum Handbook Vol 1 and Forum Handbook Vol 2.

If you choose not to explore any of these link and hope that someone will give you quick answers to your questions, at least take a look at this link: New to the board and want to ask questions? READ THIS FIRST

Best of luck,
Dave

 

[1mysurveymail]

Thanks,

I just reduced the font size to "normal" I thought "large" would make it easier to read. My eyes are a bit weak.

I just want to learn what to do next with this blackish broth... add more copper, boil, decant, bubble, or what? I still have lots of mixed parts and pins to process.

Thanks

 

[mls26cwru]

As far as your questions about your "witch's brew", my suggestion is simply to put a loose fitting lid on it and set it aside in a safe place until you learn how to deal with it. All the answers are here on the forum, but you'll have to do your part by studying the information that's here.

^^ That IS what you should do next.

i do not mean this in any condescending or demeaning way at all... simply as to help you head in the right direction. You made a very common mistake by putting everything together... the fingers, the pins, and the cpu's all have different ways of being refined and each way is very involved. unless you have pounds of pins, they probably wont be worth your while to recover... and same with the type of cpu you have in your picture above. You need to find out what material is better for your particular circumstance to recover. Since it is easiest, concentrate on studying how to recover and refine gold from trimmed fingers.... there are a number of different guides for that on the site here (check out lazersteve's site). Also study about how to treat your waste streams. (ie: neutralizing waste, cementation). I think you will find most of your answers in the process.

 

[1mysurveymail]

Thanks, but that one picture of "jumbled stuff" is not what is currently in my AP solution. Just mixed PINS from ram slots, serial connectors, and the like. I did do a batch of just "foils" first, that turned out okay. I am just stumped right now. I am trying to read, but my weekend is fleeting. I just wonder IF turning on the bubbler now is a good idea, or adding more HCL, my head is swimming.

besides closing up the bucket, I wondered what someone would suggest that I can get started on to make progress while I read more. That is all.

C

 

[1mysurveymail]

The closest thing to advice I have found is a similar condition encountered by "Chlaurite" in which she posted:

"""I've had a batch of 100g of mixed mid-grade pins running in AP for a while (over SIX WEEKS - Believe the graybeards around here when they say not to do pins in AP :mrgreen: ). Every weekend I give it a good cook (in a sand/water bath - I very much do not want to see what happens if you crack a beaker full of hot AP) and hold it at 80-85C for a few hours.

Two weeks ago it finally went black (or darkdarkDARK greenish brown, I suppose) - I suspect until that point the acid kept busy with the zinc and tin, then finally ran out of those and started working on the copper. Then, last weekend I started getting CuCl precipitating out as a white sand at the bottom. Funny thing - When I take it off the heat, I get nice feathery crystals of CuCl that end up filling about a third of the container; by morning, as oxygen does its thing, they convert to CuCl2 and go back into solution, leaving just a thin layer of the white mud in the bottom. """"

Chlaurite seemed to be at the exact same stage I am in now...


So I ask again, besides closing up the bucket, what can I do now to make progress towards dropping the gold. I promise to keep reading, but my time to "get something moving forward" is short.


Thanks,
C

 

[jeneje]

What is it you want to know how to do? Why do you think your gold is in solution? The gold foils should be floating in the AP. If it were me I filter the solution, dry any solids and incinerate wash in hot HCL, filter. If you think you have gold in the AP let it set for 5 to 7days to settle allowing any solids to settle out, decant and dry the solids and incinerate wash in HCL filter and then re-process.
Ken

 

[Geo]

what makes you think you have gold in solution? as long as you have gold plated material in the solution with base metal present, there shouldnt be any gold in solution. it sounds like the hcl has been depleted or over saturated with copper. normally, AP goes brown when the solution is saturated.

 

[1mysurveymail]

I can see gold flecks when stirring, but they are too fine to filter out with my poor coffee filter rig, and there is a grey percipitate, which I believe to be Cucl ...


jenje, ken,

"What is it you to know how to do?"

Honest answer, "nothing, not really."

My only guesses based on what I have gleaned from reading so far: Turn on the bubbler, or heat, not boil the solution. Last guess, add more copper to make sure the gold is not dissolved and "in solution."

When I say I am "lost" I am not kidding, I admit to not knowing what do do next. I am just trying to clean up my work area, and I thought for fun I would try getting some of the gold.

Thanks,
C

 

[1mysurveymail]

what makes you think you have gold in solution? as long as you have gold plated material in the solution with base metal present, there shouldnt be any gold in solution. it sounds like the hcl has been depleted or over saturated with copper. normally, AP goes brown when the solution is saturated.

Geo, Thank you for responding. I believe I have watched some youtube video you may have posted? Certainly I have read your cautions about the dangers etcetera.

My AP solution appears brownish black and green. There are very fine gold particles floating when I stir it. The gold is NOT from foils, but rather mixed pins, and cell phone parts. Either way I cannot filter out the gold without the filter clogging with the grey gooey CuCl.

So I am conflicted, about turning on the bubbler, adding more copper, adding more HCL or what?

I am very excited about learning more about this subject, and am in AWE of the amounts of material you and some of the other guys have processed (for years). Very inspiring. Since I have my shiny gold foils in a jar to keep me motivated, I am just trying get the rest of the pins, fingers, slots, and "dirty gold" off the remaining motherboards. THEN once I accumulate a pile of this "dirty gold" I will have something worthy of using real AR on, and can justify my time invested so far.

meanwhile I am just trying to make progress towards that 9999 technique you guys seem to have mastered. I am just stuck, because it seems my AP (IS BROWN) and I have so much more stuff to process. There is visible gold in the BROWN AP ... just very fine particles.

So how to "drop?" and is "stump out" pure enough sodium meta bisulfate to use IF AND WHEN.

I am reading , reading reading, but the sun is setting, and I want to do something to my AP before dark.

THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH!

Chris

 

[butcher]

Try these words in the search tin and Charmin plug

 

[1mysurveymail]

BUTCHER,

LOL, I had just read some other post and copied that "charmin plug" term and am about to search for it, as you posted your answer to me. I KNEW someone was reading my mind. Also that "Charmin Plug" was certainly NOT a big wad of toilet tissue made by the Charmin brand toilet tissue company .

:mrgreen:

Wait? IS A CHARMIN PLUG just a get big wad of toilet paper? It CAN'T be that simple.

Living in Florida, practically EVERYONE has a section of fiberglass cloth, and as it turns out, I do too. So fiberglass cloth is what I will make my charmin plug out of, I guess. The whole "vacuum funneling" process is a whole different matter. I have a large enough (5 gallon) water bottle to cut the bottom out of and convert it into a funnel too. So I will pour the contents of my AP (CuCl) bucket containing flecks of gold through that beast, and see what filter out. In my mind's eye I can imagine a big gob of grey slime mixed with gold that I then will have to deal with...

I am still reading. Have been reading posts for 8 hours now. Beer now added to boost brain power. :shock:

 

[Geo]

tin, absolutely. filter, even if it takes days. remove all the liquid. take the material thats left and incinerate it, gold, goo, everything. after bringing it to a red hot heat, treat with hot hcl to clean the foils.

 

[eastky]

If you think you have gold in the AP let it set for 5 to 7days to settle allowing any solids to settle out, decant and dry the solids and incinerate wash in HCL filter and then re-process.
Ken

Don't be in a hurry and follow the advice above in the quote. Quit stirring the solution. Let it settle and remove as much of the solution as you can without disturbing the sludge and specks of gold on the bottom.

 

[Pantherlikher]

That gold bug hits very hard huh?...

Sit down and take a very long deep breath.
The number 1 Rule you must always follow is patience. Very difficult with shiny blinding you..But Do It now!!!!

HCL and alittle...Peroxide will dissolve some gold at first but when copper takes over, it will drop out as the brown mud you see when you swirl it.

Now to your mess. Remove anything not disolved like pieces of boards that had gold, chips, any metal not dissolved. Now pay attention very carefully.
Let it sit for 3 days and all your gold and anything else will settle to the bottom of the container. Day 1 and 2 stir very lightly as the tiny paticles will tend to stick to the sides and slight stirring will get them free and allow to settle.
Day 4 you will very slowly pour out the liquid through a filter. Charmin plug or what have you. The very bottom will have the sediment but pour out as much liquid as you can.

The sediment and liquid that's left, add twice the amount of H2O, water. Let this sit uncovered but safe. The other liquid you will store with a lightly covered lid. Gasses will build up and need to be released of pressure with no problems.

Now, Read more and visualize what you have done so far and why we all keep telling you to read and learn untill your questions have answered themselves. It's not hard to learn how to learn but you have to stop trying to do it now without first learning how to Completely do it all right the first time from start to finish.

Please take the timne to carefully read what the others have suggested strongly!

B.S.

 

[JHS]

don't wash it with hcl while it is red hot.

 

[1mysurveymail]

Yes, "The Gold Bug" or "Gold Fever" I now understand.

I live in south Florida. I go SCUBA diving all the time. There is a reason they call my neck of the woods, "The Treasure Coast." Just a few weeks ago a family of treasure hunters pulled $300 thousand dollars worth of gold from less than TWENTY feet deep very near the beach. That incident reminded me of "all the gold" I have just taking up space as old computers. LOL Down this path I have started. Poorly.

The reason I bring this "gold fever" thing up is because I have never had it, but just felt it once twenty years ago...

An acquaintance of mine, and his group of treasure hunters hit it big. Like three million dollars big in one find. I got the call to go to the Mel Fisher Treasure Museum to come see what they had found. Well to make a long story short, my friend put a 400+ year old gold broach in my hand that was covered in diamonds. It was just as shiny when they found it, as the day the Spanish ship sank 400+ years ago. I finally understood the meaning that "Gold was a noble metal." Untouched by 400 years immersion in salt water. The piece I held in my hand was worth like 1-1.5 Million dollars in 1990 money!

Funny after all this time, I had never even chased gold. Now those tiny elusive flecks in my "witches brew" are prettier than almost anything, and I finally understand the ITCH, The Fever, and the Bug now that keeps you guys on the alchemical trail. ALSO my FEAR of botching up my experiment, you guys think NOTHING of DISSOLVING GOLD in AR. You do it everyday. I can't even wrap my head around DISSOLVING GOLD yet. Melting it, sure. I can still SEE IT when it melts. Your offhanded DISSOLVING of gold is something that most ordinary humans would be shocked right out of their socks to see. That is where I stand, and where I am coming from.

Thank you for your considered patience and advice. I am still reading the forums, and am going to print out Hoke's book to make it more palpable and easier to read.

Your feedback means a lot to me, thanks again.

Sincerely,
Chris

 

[Geo]

don't wash it with hcl while it is red hot.

:lol: you know, i would think most people that have dealt with this stuff would know that but it is good to point that out.

 

[Harold_V]

I just want to learn what to do next with this blackish broth... add more copper, boil, decant, bubble, or what? I still have lots of mixed parts and pins to process.

Thanks

Please accept these comments in the spirit in which they have been offered. You seem like a nice guy. Whether it sounds like it, or not, I'm trying to help you.

Nope. Wrong attitude.
This isn't about what YOU want to do. It's about what you will do if you expect help from our readers.

What you will do is exactly as you've been advised to do. You're going to read the board and Hoke's book, so you gain an understanding of the principles involved. Only then will the help you seek make sense to you. In fact, pretty good chance that once you've done as you have been told, you won't need any help.

We're very serious about new readers doing as they're expected to do. Those who refuse don't last long here. Make your choice wisely.

Harold

 

[jeneje]

Not to offend you, this is not what I want to do. We (us on the board) see new members come here, thinking there is an easy way to refine the gold and make lots of money from escrap. This is not true! I have been here going on three years reading and learning. I still learn new things and ways to do different materials every day.

Getting the gold and PGM's is only one part of the complete process, here is what I mean, first you must learn the difference between recovery and refinement, next you learn what process that is best used for that material weather AP, AR, HCL/CL, HNO3, etc... then you must learn how to test the solutions to find out what you have, make standard test solution, learn how to make stannous chloride to test with, learn the different colors and what they mean. Learn proper safety and the use of these chemicals, they can kill if misused.

Once you understand this aspect of it, you have to learn how to deal with the waste solution, all this information is here and the senior members will and are glad to help you with any problems you come across.

Jumping into this blind leads nowhere, drill a couple of small holes in your lid 1/8" put the lid on the container and do some research here. Your gold is going nowhere you can't lose it unless you pour it out.

Good Luck
Ken