New to the forum, started a "Shor" process but stopped

[average-guy]

Hello all, First of all let me introduce myself...
My name is Mike. I am from upstate NY near Lake Ontario. I own and operate a computer and TV repair business and have been in business for more than 15 years.

Over the years we have accumulated quite a load of old computers, laptops, boards and all the things that go with them. Due to the recent rise in PM i have started exploring the idea of recovering and refining. I started my search, like others i was intrigued by the website at Shor. Reluctantly, i purchased there recovery system chems and began to collect processors, fingers, RAM, connectors and so on.

I have a rather large quantity of material and a five gal. bucket was easily achieved. The bucket was all gold plated processors, cut RAM fingers and ISA, PCI card cut fingers.

Before anyone jumps at me with all the warnings and scoldings, I have been reading here almost non stop since i started the process and failed. like many, if not ALL others who have done just what I have. After not getting the desired result i began looking and came across this wonderful site. So i stopped to read all i can and learn something before i kill myself or someone else.

That being said, I can't believe the amount of knowledge here on this site. i have downloaded Hoke's book and will read as soon as i digest some of the more recent information on this forum.

i have read several other suggestions to other newbie members that just selling the scrap as is might be a better way to "process" the material.
My trouble is, that i have what i think is a good amount of PM bearing material. I know that someone with far more experience could easily process this stuff with much greater yields.

So, as it stands at the moment, i have a half a gallon of Aqua Regia with the Shor Sub Zero trash and 15 pounds of scrap material chewed up.
The process stalled with now after reading other questions is due to inadequate amount of liquid to digest the amount of metal mix that was in the bucket.
I have already taken the time to watch all of videos on the site Lazersteve has so kindly made available. I can assure you, if i do plan to process any other material, i will start with his process to remove the foils. Seems to be far cleaner process and far more professional.

Anyway, thought i would chime in here and let everyone know i am reading and reading and reading, and reading and reading some more. Then i'll probably
READ SOME MORE.

Sorry for the redundancies, but i'm sure i'ts not a frowned upon one.

My best regards and Thanks to all who are here to help with Safety and process.

Mike

 

[Geo]

welcome to the forum Mike,

is there a question in there? it seemed to be a simple statement, is there a point you need some help with or did you get the mess straightened out?

 

[element47]

The amount of material you have has no bearing upon what your decision is or should be or might be relative to whether you process it or someone else does. You say you have 15 lbs of materials....there are people who have 100 or 1000 times that much.

The decision one has to make is whether the output exceeds the input. If you happen to measure the output in money, fine. If you value the satisfaction of doing it, fine. One challenge (among many) is to carefully evaluate your inputs. Those include your materials, which in your case, appear to be "free" since you already own them. Other inputs are the absolutely mandatory safety gear and the glassware and the chemicals and the cost to ship or otherwise gather those items and the time required to very carefully study the process and how it or they need to be run. If, for example, you have this "big" pile of stuff and don't anticipate getting all that much more, or, ten PC cards and a uproc or two a week from here on out, then I (just me, just my opinion) don't see the point of investing in all the safety gear and glassware needed to do the process....if you are going to have to wait 5 months before you get enough to start another process. You're bound to forget what you learned by then.

How about approaching the thought process from a completely different angle? You have this much stuff to process. You have studied the forum and formed an opinion of how much you might expect as a yield. Suppose you could throw this stuff into a box and ship it to someone else and get 70% of your expected yield with no chemicals, no glassware, no fumes, no hazards, and no risk of process failure.

What would you do?

I really enjoy reading the forum because there is an astounding amount of knowledge here, freely offered, and I have nothing but respect for the folks who can make these processes work, but in the interest of full disclosure, I have decided for myself that it's not worth it for me to refine. You might decide completely differently. I apologize for any discouraging influence my infrequent posts may have, but quite frankly I believe that very few people have the combination of the requisite attention span, patience, sense of caution, respect for hazardous chemicals and fumes, and availability of raw materials to be doing this.

 

[average-guy]

welcome to the forum Mike,

is there a question in there? it seemed to be a simple statement, is there a point you need some help with or did you get the mess straightened out?

Thank you Geo for your response and warm welcome. I guess there was no direct question just saying hello and mentioning my problem. I have read some of the other trouble similar to mine with the shor process. I've decided to cement out the PM's and continue to read.

Thank you as well element, i appreciate your evaluation on my situation. The batch that i had mentioned was only the first batch of overall material of witch i have several thousand pounds of. mostly old 8 and 16 bit RAM, ISA cards and slot one processors. I do have many hundred lbs. of gold plated processors, fingers we have already cut and several other PM bearing boards and cards. The material is ongoing in-stream and I'm sure that if i can get the process down the yields will be high.

The approaching angle of your suggestion has always been on my mind.

Are you suggesting that i could, on average, get 70% of the expected yield by just selling the material as is?

Thank you for your input.

 

[element47]

Are you suggesting that i could, on average, get 70% of the expected yield by just selling the material as is?

You could do some investigating on ebay as to what lots of this type of material have sold for. I had some clusters of chips, nice ceramic ones with gold squares on top and gold pins. My strong impression was that I got about 75-80% of the value out of them just selling them.

You could throw an auction or two or three up there with 5 lb lots, smallish lots just to see what the market will bear.

Boardsort is an active poster on this board and apparently well reco'ed by some users who have sold him stuff. There are possibly more, but his name comes to mind.

Regardless, I believe you can get a darned good idea of what your materials will yield. Just as a thinking point, you are mentioning "chips" and "fingers" in the same thought, they are processed differently.

70%, yes, is just a guess, but yes, that's my guess. I invite others to weigh in. Perhaps we should take it one step further....what percentage of the top potential yield would you be willing to give up if you did no processing? I hope you understand, I am just phrasing the question that way as a means of suggesting that you ask yourself the same question. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm only urging you to make a smart decision, however you happen to define smart. As I have said before in my generally and admitttedly pessimistic way, $1 of strong nitric acid splashed in the wrong place can do more damage than all the gold you are likely to refine working for several years. I happen to evaluate risk differently than many others do.

 

[butcher]

element47,
I agree very good points to consider.

 

[nickvc]

I find myself agreeing with element on many occasions, refining isn't for everyone, but it can be a satisfying hobby and can pay for itself and even yield a profit once you fully master the processes.
The choices element gives are factual and are to be considered by anyone new to the hobby/ business. To have a large free or owned supply is a good start the next part is doing exactly what you are, reading and studying the various processes and methods to recover and refine the values you have, recovery is as far as some members go and I see no problem with that you cherry pick the stack, sell the base metals and stripped boards and are left with items containing the easier to process values, pins, fingers,CPUs etc. The decision now is do I refine these items myself or sell or send for refining ?
Only you can answer that but by doing your reading you will know what your decision will be by having the knowledge to make that decision.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[average-guy]

Thank you Nick, Butcher and again element for your very positive suggestions. You all have very valid points.

As much as I would love to recover, refine and melt my values myself i truly understand the time and risks involved completely. I know i am capable of doing the entire process myself. Although, I am now where near calling myself or even close to being a chemist. The processes required to recover the PM's, for halfway intelligent person seem pretty straight forward and certainly within reach.

I guess given all the negative aspects to recovering myself, the alternatives of selling the material outright to someone who is better qualified, and/or already involved in this type of operation seems to be the obvious choice for someone like me. Money to purchase and setup the basic required items for safe and effective recovery are not an issue.
Safety and the disposal of the used chems are.

After careful though and consideration, it would seem that selling the material is the best course of action. Given the material cost me next to nothing, I do have an unlimited long term supply for the material. I would be happy with a net return on the material as is of 60 - 75% of its final processed value.

I did have a chance to look over the site at boardsort.com and was generally excited to see the prices they are paying for the materials i have. Moreover, they are within reasonable driving distance to "hand deliver" the materials myself. Cutting the cost of shipping.

I do have a business to run and I'm generally short for time, this is one of the greater tipping factors on the decision. I would however really like the satisfaction of doing it myself. I just don't think that's the best way to go at this time.

When it comes right down to it, i just want to turn the materiel into profit, the fastest, safest and most intelligent way possible. With your help and input I'm sure that i will. And the direction is clear.

Thank you, all of you for your input and great wisdom. i will continue to read here and absorb more knowledge as i need it. Certainly my circumstances could change and the information here will prove to be invaluable.

Have a great day,

My best regards,

Mike