Nitric Acid Online. Too good to be true?

[goldenchild]

I've been sifting through the wealth of information in this forum looking for the best way to make nitric acid with the sodium nitrate and liquid fire I have on hand and it all makes sense but im worried about the danger factor. So I decided to see if I could purchase nitric acid online for a decent price as there is nowhere in my area to buy it. This way I would only have to worry about handling and storage and not making it. I did a basic google search and stumbled upon the site ArtChemicals.com more specifically this link http://www.artchemicals.com/Product...834&CartID=0&gclid=CPbboo3PupwCFRBM5QodsBuyog. They claim to sell a liter of nitric 70% for $43.00. At first this seemed really high but then I thought about how people in this forum say that 50% down to 30% is usually sufficient for refining. So I did a little math and came up with this(hopefully its correct).

1 liter= 1000ml
so there are 700ml of nitric and 300ml of water in 70%

if I added 400ml of water to the liter i would have 1400ml of 50%

if i added 1333ml of water to the liter I would have about 2333ml of 30%

IF my math is correct that equates to
1.4 liters of 50% for $43.00
a little over 2.3 liters of 30% for $43.00(a little over 21.5 per liter of 30%)

Provided there are no horrendous shipping and handling fees, Is this a good price for say the 2.3 liters of 30%? Or does anyone know where I could get a better deal? Does anyone know where lazersteve go his bottle of 70% in the "Separating Silver from Gold" on his site?

p.s they have 2.5 of 70% for $65.00 also

Thanks everyone

 

[jimdoc]

The problem is the shipping price, you will have to pay a hazmat
charge that will make it double or more. The price is high for 1 liter to start with. Best bet is to find a local source.

 

[goldenchild]

I see. Where is a place that might sell it? I just dont see anywhere around here selling the stuff but maybe I am looking in the wrong place. If I happen to find it what is a fair price per say liter?

 

[eeTHr]

goldenchild;

I haven't tried this source yet, but it's next on my list---

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4876&p=41950&hilit=greenhouse#p41950

 

[goldenchild]

Yep... I literally called about 50 places today ranging from greenhouses stoneyards and pharamacies and heres what I found. Most of the people I talked to never even heard of nitric acid. A greenhouse that never heard of nitric. Go figure. Then I got the people that seemed to know what it was and maybe where I could get some but didnt want to divulge the info. It seems when you ask for anything with the word acid in it you automatically are going to do something bad with it. One pharmasist asked me what I was going to do with it and when I told him I was using it for gold refining applications he opened up and gave me a few suggestions but unfortunatly they were all dead ends. I called about 15 agways and they either didnt know what it was or didnt carry it. Then finally I called one and the lady actually was very good in helping me. She said she actually knew what it was and she carried it. The problem was that she didnt have any in stock but assured me she would call me tomorrow after she looked on the invoice to see if they will be getting any in their shipment next week. She told me that nitric acid was a seasonal thing(which makes sense). Hopefully I luck out and they will be getting some. I would have to drive about 30 miles to get it but you better believe I will stock up! So my search continues. If anyone has any suggestions or has found an online source with decent prices please let me know. I live in the U.S.

thanks

 

[leavemealone]

Here is the guy I have bought from for a couple of years now.He has an online store somewhere that is a little less expensive,but I can't seem to find it right now.I have never had any problems with the nitric or the shipping speed or the packaging.He is a top notch guy to buy from.
Johnny
EDIT- **HERE IS HIS ONLINE STORE**
http://www.dudadiesel.com/other_chemicals.php

 

[Palladium]

$ 100.00 / Gal. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

+ Shipping :shock: :shock: :shock:

Thank god for farmers and Fertilizer in the south. I've got Farm supply stores everywhere.

$ 100.00 a gallon. Give me my coveralls baby. Were going to town.

 

[oldtimmer]

Ouch... $100.00 a gallon. My wallet is shaking... I have given up on the poor mans Nitric and gone back to my local chemical supply house. I just purchased a 7lb bottle. Looks like it is almost a gallon.

My price was $31.10 plus $2.72 tax.

dave

 

[leavemealone]

The idea was to give golden child an option that was cheaper than $43/liter.Thats what my plan was.He didnt seem to think it was that bad of a cost once you dilute it and look at the resultant volume,so this would give him a much better deal than what he had been considering buying.Funny though,no one made any comments about the $43 a liter price,but $24 a liter is much worse.....lol.
Well I tried to help,sorry.
Johnny

 

[goldenchild]

The idea was to give golden child an option that was cheaper than $43/liter.Thats what my plan was.He didnt seem to think it was that bad of a cost once you dilute it and look at the resultant volume,so this would give him a much better deal than what he had been considering buying.Funny though,no one made any comments about the $43 a liter price,but $24 a liter is much worse.....lol.
Well I tried to help,sorry.
Johnny

No leavemealone, this is definately better than $43 a liter. I had no reference to go by. Palladium and oldtimmer... you've got to realize that all of us dont have access to local distributors of nitric so we have to do the best we can with available resources. As I stated in an earlier post, I called about 50 places asking if they carried nitric and for the most part no one even knew what it was. Its tough around here. $24 a liter is still steap but remember we would dilute to 50%-30% so we get more than a gallon. Yes that means for oldtimmer you get a liter for $8.46 and even more for even less if diluted but like i said we gotta make due with what is available to us. I made a few batches of nitric but it was very weak. I followed lazersteves formula for the 50/50 but didnt come out quite right. Is there a better way of making this? Lets keep this thread going everyone.

On a side note I was wondering about something. As Im writing this there are over 8200 members to the forum. How many of you are female? To me this seems to be a male dominated hobby/business. My girlfriend says she would not even mess with the chemistry involved.

 

[eeTHr]

I had trouble with the home made nitric also.

I used potassiom nitrate, compensated for the water in the pool grade muriatic [Edit: that should read "battery acid dilution sulfuric" instead of "muriatic"] I used, and put it in the freezer and filtered.

It seemed to be plenty strong. But when I tested it on a piece of a fingers strip, the gold dissapeared into solution. Then I noticed that it had a chlorine smell to it.

I have since read that both sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate can contain traces of chloride salt, which is responsible for the formation of the chlorine. Also that distilling the home made nitric is the only way to lose the chlorine (also the nitric will be almost the standard "concentrated" 70% then).

I'm wondering, though, doesn't chlorine evaporate about as easily as nitric acid does? So why doesn't it go through the condenser right along with the nitric?

 

[Platdigger]

eeTHr, if you used "muratic", you made AR, not nitric.
This would acount for the chlorine smell, as well as it's ability to disolve gold.

For homemade nitric you need sulfuric acid, not HCL.

 

[Palladium]

As Im writing this there are over 8200 members to the forum. How many of you are female? To me this seems to be a male dominated hobby/business. My girlfriend says she would not even mess with the chemistry involved.

C.M. Hoke was a woman.

 

[eeTHr]

Sorry, I did in fact use sulfuric, battery acid dilution. Brain error when writing.

 

[lazersteve]

Sorry, I did in fact use sulfuric, battery acid dilution. Brain error when writing.

My recipe calls for concentrated sulfuric acid although the recipe can be modified to use less water and weaker acid. Also you must use different masses of nitrate when using the potassium niter.

When my hand gets better I have plans to post a video on making nitric.

As for using poor man's nitric for silver, you can remove trace chlorides and sulfates prior to use with a few silver nitrate crystals via:

2 AgNO3(aq) + Na2SO4(aq) → Ag2SO4 (s)+ 2NaNO3(aq)

AgNO3(aq) + NaCl(aq) → AgCl (s) + NaNO3(aq)

Let the sediment settle and siphon off the acid.

Steve

 

[eeTHr]

Lazersteve;

That's what I was looking for! Thanks!

 

[goldenchild]

My recipe calls for concentrated sulfuric acid although the recipe can be modified to use less water and weaker acid. Also you must use different masses of nitrate when using the potassium niter.

When my hand gets better I have plans to post a video on making nitric.

As for using poor man's nitric for silver, you can remove trace chlorides and sulfates prior to use with a few silver nitrate crystals via:

2 AgNO3(aq) + Na2SO4(aq) → Ag2SO4 (s)+ 2NaNO3(aq)

AgNO3(aq) + NaCl(aq) → AgCl (s) + NaNO3(aq)

Let the sediment settle and siphon off the acid.

Steve

Yup. I tried your recipe for making the 160 ml of 50/50 but it came out what I think to be weak. Had to heat it up alot just do anything at all. Maybe seeing it on video I will find what I'm doing wrong. Your videos are the bombdizzle.
Note: i was using standard sodium nitrate and liquid fire drain opener.

 

[lazersteve]

Having a good supply of 68-70% nitric on hand, I do not need to make my own.

Catfish (Tom) here on the forum has made lots of nitric using my formula and others. He has contacted me to let me know that my formula produced a much stronger acid than several other formulas he had tried in the past. Another member makes it in 5 gallon batches using a method identical to mine. Five Gallon Nitric

Tom is a very exacting guy and stated he regularly made small batches of the nitric. He also exclusively used dehydrated battery acid to make his nitric. This gave him a very concentrated clear sulfuric acid that was important to the strength of the nitric.

I've been meaning to video the process in detail to give the forum members the means to make their own.

For the record, I seldom use 68% nitric acid unless I'm working with silver or the final dissolution of PGMs. Otherwise I find the dry nitrates to be the best form to get the job done. I use between 10 and 20 pounds of nitrate each month in my recycling efforts.

Steve

 

[eeTHr]

My recipe calls for concentrated sulfuric acid although the recipe can be modified to use less water and weaker acid. Also you must use different masses of nitrate when using the potassium niter.

I had found a post where someone had calculated the proper amounts of both sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate, and the potassium nitrate was 1.17 times the sodium nitrate.

I then calculated how much I could reduce the additional water, to end up with the same amount of water that would be in there if I had used concentrated (98%) sulfuric. The water almost exactly zeroed out. I wanted to end up with 50-50, water to concentrated (70%) nitric, and by just leaving out the added water it calculated out to 49-51. If my calculations were correct.

Anyway, like I said above, it was plenty strong enough.

I used it for some aqua regia, adding just a little at a time to the muriatic, and it didn't take much at all, so it must have been OK. (except that by itself, it had enough chloride in it to eat a half dozen gold finger foils on a small piece of fingers strip, although slowly, in additon to the copper underneath.)

 

[goldenchild]

I had found a post where someone had calculated the proper amounts of both sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate, and the potassium nitrate was 1.17 times the sodium nitrate.

I then calculated how much I could reduce...

Can you explain how you make your nitric or post what you had found?