No nitrates available (that I can afford to buy) so question

[rewalston]

Ok, I have two buckets going, I have my Stockpot with copper in it and my other bucket with iron. We know that With the copper pot it will drop any PMs that may be in solution, and we know that the iron pot will drop copper (and any minute PMs). I have been thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble). My processes have all been cucl2 up to this point for getting foils from pins and boards. What I was wondering. Could you use the iron pot w/heat and H2O2 as an oxidizer work to remove the gold (and copper) from things like coaxial cable ends or other things that might have another metal besides copper as a base? Looking at the reactivity series, that should work, but I'm just not certain, so that's why I'm asking. I can't afford to go the normal route with a gold cell for plating. I have sulfuric acid but don't have a charger to hook up for a gold cell.

Rusty

 

[JHS]

Hi Rusty,
If you have some junk pc chargers , you could use it for a cell.
check amazon for sodium nitrate.
john

 

[solar_plasma]

It is hard to understand your question(s). Your text seems to have nothing to do with the topic nitrates.

You seem to mean a sulfuric cell, not at "gold cell" which is something else and most of us cannot afford a gold electrorefining cell (Wohlwill cell). For a sulfuric cell you can get good used powersupplies for maybe 30$ on ebay.

Both CuCl2 and also FeCl3 will eat most if not all basemetals, but CuCl2 will get fouled by basemetals with a higher electronegativity than copper. If there is a lot of iron it will become more of a FeCl3 leach. So it works. It is just not easy or maybe even impossible to regenerate. So I think it is more correct to talk about HCl/oxidizer etching, what you want to do.

To answer you question about nitrates (if this is a question). If necessary it is possible even to make nitric from air by having an electric arc within a flask, pumping air through this flask and through another flask with water. Under those high temperatures N2 and O2 react building NOx, which will form nitric with O2 and H2O. Only igniting an electro shocker in a wet beaker will acidify some water in it within 30 seconds, so it will turn a pH paper red. But of course this is much more effort, than if using nitrates.

 

[rewalston]

It is hard to understand your question(s). Your text seems to have nothing to do with the topic nitrates.

You seem to mean a sulfuric cell, not at "gold cell" which is something else and most of us cannot afford a gold electrorefining cell (Wohlwill cell). For a sulfuric cell you can get good used powersupplies for maybe 30$ on ebay.

Both CuCl2 and also FeCl3 will eat most if not all basemetals, but CuCl2 will get fouled by basemetals with a higher electronegativity than copper. If there is a lot of iron it will become more of a FeCl3 leach. So it works. It is just not easy or maybe even impossible to regenerate. So I think it is more correct to talk about HCl/oxidizer etching, what you want to do.

To answer you question about nitrates (if this is a question). If necessary it is possible even to make nitric from air by having an electric arc within a flask, pumping air through this flask and through another flask with water. Under those high temperatures N2 and O2 react building NOx, which will form nitric with O2 and H2O. Only igniting an electro shocker in a wet beaker will acidify some water in it within 30 seconds, so it will turn a pH paper red. But of course this is much more effort, than if using nitrates.

Yes the sulfuric cell is what I was referring to, I'm not certain why nitrates popped into my head. It's been one of those weeks. I have some material that I'm pretty sure is not copper based so that is why I was asking about FeCl3 being a possibility for those materials. Right now my only choices due to finances is HCl, H2O2, H2SO4 and household bleach..and my two pots I mentioned. Just looking at what I have on hand that will do the job.

Rusty

 

[solar_plasma]

I think Geo has written some very good posts about FeCl3. It will do the job, especially if it is hot.

 

[rewalston]

I think Geo has written some very good posts about FeCl3. It will do the job, especially if it is hot.

I have a crockpot, that would make it hot enough lol.

 

[modtheworld44]

I think Geo has written some very good posts about FeCl3. It will do the job, especially if it is hot.

I have a crockpot, that would make it hot enough lol.

rewalston

How much material are you wanting to run per batch of FeCl3 and in how much time?Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

 

[MarcoP]

I think Geo has written some very good posts about FeCl3. It will do the job, especially if it is hot.

Cool it down and most metals will crystallize (probably only iron not sure about this detail) and will be ready to etch again.

 

[jeneje]

That is Not (FeCl3) Ferric Chloride he has. It is (FeCl2) iron ll Chloride or better known as Ferrous Chloride.

Ken

 

[rewalston]

I think Geo has written some very good posts about FeCl3. It will do the job, especially if it is hot.

I have a crockpot, that would make it hot enough lol.

rewalston

How much material are you wanting to run per batch of FeCl3 and in how much time?Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

I don't have a whole lot of material at the moment. I have maybe 1/2lb of chips that I need to incinerate, pins and some cable connectors. I'd say all told maybe 2 cups of material, if that. Just a little material that I've collected to add to my teeny button :lol:

 

[modtheworld44]

Ok, I have two buckets going, I have my Stockpot with copper in it and my other bucket with iron. We know that With the copper pot it will drop any PMs that may be in solution, and we know that the iron pot will drop copper (and any minute PMs). I have been thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble). My processes have all been cucl2 up to this point for getting foils from pins and boards. What I was wondering. Could you use the iron pot w/heat and H2O2 as an oxidizer work to remove the gold (and copper) from things like coaxial cable ends or other things that might have another metal besides copper as a base? Looking at the reactivity series, that should work, but I'm just not certain, so that's why I'm asking. I can't afford to go the normal route with a gold cell for plating. I have sulfuric acid but don't have a charger to hook up for a gold cell.

Rusty

rewalston

The underlined and colored part that I included in your post,will convert the Ferrous Chloride you'll start with from your stockpot,to Ferric Chloride.From there add heat at a boil and it will start to dissolve the metals at a much faster rate than putting it on a lower heat setting.If it starts to get thick add a little HCl to thin it out a little.Don't over dilute it with HCl the more concentrated it is the better it works.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

 

[jeneje]

Ok, I have two buckets going, I have my Stockpot with copper in it and my other bucket with iron. We know that With the copper pot it will drop any PMs that may be in solution, and we know that the iron pot will drop copper (and any minute PMs). I have been thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble). My processes have all been cucl2 up to this point for getting foils from pins and boards. What I was wondering. Could you use the iron pot w/heat and H2O2 as an oxidizer work to remove the gold (and copper) from things like coaxial cable ends or other things that might have another metal besides copper as a base? Looking at the reactivity series, that should work, but I'm just not certain, so that's why I'm asking. I can't afford to go the normal route with a gold cell for plating. I have sulfuric acid but don't have a charger to hook up for a gold cell.

Rusty

rewalston

The underlined and colored part that I included in your post,will convert the Ferrous Chloride you'll start with from your stockpot,to Ferric Chloride.From there add heat at a boil and it will start to dissolve the metals at a much faster rate than putting it on a lower heat setting.If it starts to get thick add a little HCl to thin it out a little.Don't over dilute it with HCl the more concentrated it is the better it works.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

Let me see if I can explain this. To make Ferric Chloride, all you need is steel wool or iron nails, H202-3%, HCl-32%, water and heat. This is true. Put the nails or steel wool in the HCl and allow it to dissolve completely, you will have a green Ferrous chloride solution. Then add H2O2 slowly to the solution ( this will create a lot of heat) oxidizing the Ferrous Chloride turning it into Ferric Chloride a reddish brown color.

If you have a stock pot that you put your solutions in and then add Iron to drop out any metals below it, then Add H202 and heat does not make it Ferric Chloride. You already have other salts mixed in the solution.

That is my understanding. I may be wrong but, if I am someone will correct this.

Ken

 

[rewalston]

Ok, I have two buckets going, I have my Stockpot with copper in it and my other bucket with iron. We know that With the copper pot it will drop any PMs that may be in solution, and we know that the iron pot will drop copper (and any minute PMs). I have been thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble). My processes have all been cucl2 up to this point for getting foils from pins and boards. What I was wondering. Could you use the iron pot w/heat and H2O2 as an oxidizer work to remove the gold (and copper) from things like coaxial cable ends or other things that might have another metal besides copper as a base? Looking at the reactivity series, that should work, but I'm just not certain, so that's why I'm asking. I can't afford to go the normal route with a gold cell for plating. I have sulfuric acid but don't have a charger to hook up for a gold cell.

Rusty

rewalston

The underlined and colored part that I included in your post,will convert the Ferrous Chloride you'll start with from your stockpot,to Ferric Chloride.From there add heat at a boil and it will start to dissolve the metals at a much faster rate than putting it on a lower heat setting.If it starts to get thick add a little HCl to thin it out a little.Don't over dilute it with HCl the more concentrated it is the better it works.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

Let me see if I can explain this. To make Ferric Chloride, all you need is steel wool or iron nails, H202-3%, HCl-32%, water and heat. This is true. Put the nails or steel wool in the HCl and allow it to dissolve completely, you will have a green Ferrous chloride solution. Then add H2O2 slowly to the solution ( this will create a lot of heat) oxidizing the Ferrous Chloride turning it into Ferric Chloride a reddish brown color.

If you have a stock pot that you put your solutions in and then add Iron to drop out any metals below it, then Add H202 and heat does not make it Ferric Chloride. You already have other salts mixed in the solution.

That is my understanding. I may be wrong but, if I am someone will correct this.

Ken

My stockpot has copper sitting in it. The iron pot I'm talking about is a separate bucket that is dropping copper and anything else below iron on the reactivity series. So if I syphon of the solution it should be a ferric or ferrous chloride. The solution color is leaning right now to the reddish brown you mention.

 

[jeneje]

Ok, I have two buckets going, I have my Stockpot with copper in it and my other bucket with iron. We know that With the copper pot it will drop any PMs that may be in solution, and we know that the iron pot will drop copper (and any minute PMs). I have been thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble). My processes have all been cucl2 up to this point for getting foils from pins and boards. What I was wondering. Could you use the iron pot w/heat and H2O2 as an oxidizer work to remove the gold (and copper) from things like coaxial cable ends or other things that might have another metal besides copper as a base? Looking at the reactivity series, that should work, but I'm just not certain, so that's why I'm asking. I can't afford to go the normal route with a gold cell for plating. I have sulfuric acid but don't have a charger to hook up for a gold cell.

Rusty

rewalston

The underlined and colored part that I included in your post,will convert the Ferrous Chloride you'll start with from your stockpot,to Ferric Chloride.From there add heat at a boil and it will start to dissolve the metals at a much faster rate than putting it on a lower heat setting.If it starts to get thick add a little HCl to thin it out a little.Don't over dilute it with HCl the more concentrated it is the better it works.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

Let me see if I can explain this. To make Ferric Chloride, all you need is steel wool or iron nails, H202-3%, HCl-32%, water and heat. This is true. Put the nails or steel wool in the HCl and allow it to dissolve completely, you will have a green Ferrous chloride solution. Then add H2O2 slowly to the solution ( this will create a lot of heat) oxidizing the Ferrous Chloride turning it into Ferric Chloride a reddish brown color.

If you have a stock pot that you put your solutions in and then add Iron to drop out any metals below it, then Add H202 and heat does not make it Ferric Chloride. You already have other salts mixed in the solution.

That is my understanding. I may be wrong but, if I am someone will correct this.

Ken

My stockpot has copper sitting in it. The iron pot I'm talking about is a separate bucket that is dropping copper and anything else below iron on the reactivity series. So if I syphon of the solution it should be a ferric or ferrous chloride. The solution color is leaning right now to the reddish brown you mention.

What was the starting solution before you put Iron in it?
Ken

 

[modtheworld44]

Ok, I have two buckets going, I have my Stockpot with copper in it and my other bucket with iron. We know that With the copper pot it will drop any PMs that may be in solution, and we know that the iron pot will drop copper (and any minute PMs). I have been thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble). My processes have all been cucl2 up to this point for getting foils from pins and boards. What I was wondering. Could you use the iron pot w/heat and H2O2 as an oxidizer work to remove the gold (and copper) from things like coaxial cable ends or other things that might have another metal besides copper as a base? Looking at the reactivity series, that should work, but I'm just not certain, so that's why I'm asking. I can't afford to go the normal route with a gold cell for plating. I have sulfuric acid but don't have a charger to hook up for a gold cell.

Rusty

rewalston

The underlined and colored part that I included in your post,will convert the Ferrous Chloride you'll start with from your stockpot,to Ferric Chloride.From there add heat at a boil and it will start to dissolve the metals at a much faster rate than putting it on a lower heat setting.If it starts to get thick add a little HCl to thin it out a little.Don't over dilute it with HCl the more concentrated it is the better it works.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

Let me see if I can explain this. To make Ferric Chloride, all you need is steel wool or iron nails, H202-3%, HCl-32%, water and heat. This is true. Put the nails or steel wool in the HCl and allow it to dissolve completely, you will have a green Ferrous chloride solution. Then add H2O2 slowly to the solution ( this will create a lot of heat) oxidizing the Ferrous Chloride turning it into Ferric Chloride a reddish brown color.

If you have a stock pot that you put your solutions in and then add Iron to drop out any metals below it, then Add H202 and heat does not make it Ferric Chloride. You already have other salts mixed in the solution.

That is my understanding. I may be wrong but, if I am someone will correct this.

Ken

My stockpot has copper sitting in it. The iron pot I'm talking about is a separate bucket that is dropping copper and anything else below iron on the reactivity series. So if I syphon of the solution it should be a ferric or ferrous chloride. The solution color is leaning right now to the reddish brown you mention.

rewalston

I think since I'm being made out to not Know what I'm talking about by our good friend jeneje.I will refer your question to those that are more experienced than myself in this matter so there is no conflict created or started by my own experiences of the process.So with much respect sir I must for now bow out of this debate.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

 

[rewalston]

What was the starting solution before you put Iron in it?
Ken

The starting solution was used up AP and the rinses from the bb that I refined that tested neg for any more gold.
Rusty

 

[rewalston]

Ok, I have two buckets going, I have my Stockpot with copper in it and my other bucket with iron. We know that With the copper pot it will drop any PMs that may be in solution, and we know that the iron pot will drop copper (and any minute PMs). I have been thinking (which sometimes gets me into trouble). My processes have all been cucl2 up to this point for getting foils from pins and boards. What I was wondering. Could you use the iron pot w/heat and H2O2 as an oxidizer work to remove the gold (and copper) from things like coaxial cable ends or other things that might have another metal besides copper as a base? Looking at the reactivity series, that should work, but I'm just not certain, so that's why I'm asking. I can't afford to go the normal route with a gold cell for plating. I have sulfuric acid but don't have a charger to hook up for a gold cell.

Rusty

rewalston

The underlined and colored part that I included in your post,will convert the Ferrous Chloride you'll start with from your stockpot,to Ferric Chloride.From there add heat at a boil and it will start to dissolve the metals at a much faster rate than putting it on a lower heat setting.If it starts to get thick add a little HCl to thin it out a little.Don't over dilute it with HCl the more concentrated it is the better it works.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

Let me see if I can explain this. To make Ferric Chloride, all you need is steel wool or iron nails, H202-3%, HCl-32%, water and heat. This is true. Put the nails or steel wool in the HCl and allow it to dissolve completely, you will have a green Ferrous chloride solution. Then add H2O2 slowly to the solution ( this will create a lot of heat) oxidizing the Ferrous Chloride turning it into Ferric Chloride a reddish brown color.

If you have a stock pot that you put your solutions in and then add Iron to drop out any metals below it, then Add H202 and heat does not make it Ferric Chloride. You already have other salts mixed in the solution.

That is my understanding. I may be wrong but, if I am someone will correct this.

Ken

My stockpot has copper sitting in it. The iron pot I'm talking about is a separate bucket that is dropping copper and anything else below iron on the reactivity series. So if I syphon of the solution it should be a ferric or ferrous chloride. The solution color is leaning right now to the reddish brown you mention.

rewalston

I think since I'm being made out to not Know what I'm talking about by our good friend jeneje.I will refer your question to those that are more experienced than myself in this matter so there is no conflict created or started by my own experiences of the process.So with much respect sir I must for now bow out of this debate.Thanks in advance.



modtheworld44

Not a problem at all sir. You've probably gotten more gold than I have, but I understand.

Rusty

 

[jeneje]

What was the starting solution before you put Iron in it?
Ken

The starting solution was used up AP and the rinses from the bb that I refined that tested neg for any more gold.
Rusty

Rusty, the reddish brown is more than likely copper that is suspended in solution. After the copper settles you will have Ferrous Chloride.

Ken

 

[rewalston]

The starting solution was used up AP and the rinses from the bb that I refined that tested neg for any more gold.
Rusty

Rusty, the reddish brown is more than likely copper that is suspended in solution. After the copper settles you will have Ferrous Chloride.

Ken

Thanks, Ken. I'm pretty sure the copper has settled. I didn't use a bubbler and it's been just mixed once in a while. I need another outlet to allow me to use my bubbler where I currently have it.
Rusty

 

[jeneje]

Thanks, Ken. I'm pretty sure the copper has settled. I didn't use a bubbler and it's been just mixed once in a while. I need another outlet to allow me to use my bubbler where I currently have it.
Rusty

Rusty, did you use copper first to cement out any PM's that may have been left, before putting the Iron in?
Ken

edited; I re-read the OP and see that you did use copper first. If you decant the solution, leaving any solids in the bottom for further refining, you will have Ferrous Chloride. You can then re-use this solution to remove base metals until it gets saturated, once it becomes saturated it is spent and will need to be neutralized and disposed of safely.