No precipitation

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copper metal put into your solution, is what we call cementing out values.

What happens when we do this?

The acid solution may contain our gold, it may also have other base metals dissolved in solution with our gold, and may have excess nitric acid, these metals are dissolved in the acid as ions or dissolved salts of metals, the atoms of these metals are missing electrons, by us putting the copper metal into this solution we provide electrons for the metals in solution, which are less reactive than the metal copper, (study reactivity series of metals on Google for a better understanding of this very important process), the copper will give up electrons and become ions dissolved into the acid, the more noble metals will gain the electron copper gives up, and these more valuable metals will change back into an full atom of metals as a powder we call cement (this name comes from when we do this with silver and silver powder looks gray like cement), our powder here will probably look black from the dirty gold, so the copper is oxidized (lose of electron) and dissolves into solution, the gold is reduced (gain of electron) and becomes an elemental powder of gold metal, the copper will also use up any free acid in solution as it is dissolved into solution, after excess acid is used up and all of the gold or more noble metal is reduced, the copper will not dissolve more or give up more electrons, this may take time depending on conditions.

After all of the gold is reduced we brush off the black powdered gold (into the solution) from the remaining copper bar, put the copper bar back into solution for a period of time to see if more gold comes out of solution making more black powder onto the copper bar, if it does not and the copper bar stays a clean copper color we can brush off the copper one more time into the solution rinse the copper off dry and store it in a plastic bag for later use, the solution we let settle well, to let all of the fine black gold powder settle, then we can remove liquid without moving the gold powder, the liquid tested with stannous chloride to prove no gold left in solution is then treated for waste.

Iron is added to the waste solution to cement out the copper, this iron solution is removed from the copper powders which formed, to the decanted iron chloride solution we add sodium hydroxide to raise the pH to 9.5 let the iron hydroxide settle, decant the solution and lower pH to 7 with small acid additions, at this point we have a clear salt water we can dispose of safely, we also have the metal powders which need to be dried before disposing of, these hydroxide powders if heated or incinerated will form the safer less soluble metal oxides, so we can the dispose of the oxide powder, with less harm of poisoning someone.

Now back to your gold powders, they will be dirty, and need to be cleaned before we can recover and then refine the gold from the powders.

My suggestion for you at this point is to dry these powders and save them, so you do not loose your gold, I could spend a lot of time trying to tell you what to do now, but you will still have troubles, because you have not studied enough yet to understand, this would only cause you and me both more troubles, dry your powders and spend time doing your study, the gold will still be there and you will learn how to recover and refine gold, without study all you will do is make mess after mess, and keep losing your gold, with study you will learn how it all works, so that you can recover and refine gold, and be able to answer your own questions.
 
Hello Butcher,
After my first attempt at the ar process failed,I stopped.I read,studied,watched the vidioes both here and on the net.
I beleive I have a much better understanding of the processes.I am not ready to proceed.
I did some research into several reasons my gold did not drop.I found out that
my water is treated with chlorine and ammonia(as per the water co-op)
could this be a factor in the reaction? 2 g smb-8 oz tap water.the chlorine, ammonia percent is unknown.
I am not ready to proceed yet,but would like to gather addational info.
thanks john
 
John,
Dissolving gold in aqua regia is fairly easy, the trouble comes when we try to get the gold back out of solution, is where it can be a bit tricky.

Free nitric acid is one problem, we have several ways to overcome this, using the bare amount of nitric needed, we can also leave a little gold undissolved, running the reaction with heat to be sure to consume the free nitric acid, or using a gold button and heat to use up nitric acid, we also have the evaporation process we learn in Hokes, and then there is sulfamic acid, personally I will use a combination of these methods to insure I have eliminated nitric from solution.

A major problem besides nitric, is when we are new we think we can dissolve all kinds of metals in aqua regia, and get our gold, here if all of the gold hasn't already plated back out of solution onto remaining base metals, we have a solution filled with other metals, if there is too much of these other metals, it becomes very difficult to precipitate the gold from solution, with just a little tiny bit of base metals we can, but if solution is loaded with base metals, we might as well use copper to cement the gold out and start over.
The goal is to remove all of the other metals and only dissolve the gold as pure as we can.

Dirt, oils, organics, glue... trash, even oil from our hands on glassware, can give problems, most scrap is just dirty and needs pretreatments to clean it up, like incineration to burn off oils and grime. the dirty solutions mixed with base metals only complicates the process of trying to precipitate our gold.

Tin is a very big problem when we work with electronic scrap, if you do not deal with tin before you dissolve your gold, the you are allowing tin to steal your gold.

As far as your water I never heard of both chlorine and ammonia being used together to treat water, as this would make ammonium chloride, I would think they may treat it with one or the other at different times maybe, these are gases that you may be able to lower there content in your water by letting it sit for long periods, or boiling it, (unless they actually treat it with both and form ammonium chloride salts in solution), I would think the gas in the water would be of such a low content that it wouldn't cause to much trouble, I use well water, but if you feel it could be a part of your problems then distilled water is very cheap compared to the price of gold.

John it is good you are spending the time to study, as this is really the only way to learn it, I have been studying it since I joined the forum, and I am still learning more all of the time.
 
Hello butcher, you cut me to slices,
What 'submerge', amazing, wow………….
You spend so much to me; there is a prophet at North West.
I read it all from up to down and reversed, really fantastic explanation and take all your recommendations.
First back to drawing table and study for more, the curiosity that kill the cat that what it was I felt the need to try the toxic fumes (probably some complex from my childhood).
So submerging again anther copper to see may be I will get some cement I need it because I make restoration in my house.
For neutralize the solution tomorrow (normal working day for us sorry) try to get stannous chloride and lackmus paper.
Excuse me for my ignorance I didn’t made my homework yet for this lesson, what will be the consequences if I will use Sodium bicarbonate instead of Sodium hydroxide to raise the PH?
Grab my hat, sincerely Ori
 

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Hello to the forum members, who watch this post,
I have to apologized to you user Alentia and to the other users who view it, I didn’t take
Your instruction and ignore them, the reason lack of understanding sorry.
butcher explanation help me to understand the process you aimed.
To users squarecoinman and rusty thanks for your care about others troubles.
Start with the neutralizing process.
Ori
 

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ori,
With study you will be going in the right direction.
Take your time, read Hokes, a good place to begin your study of the forum is with the guided tour in general chat.
Do not do this in your Home only in fresh air or with a fume hood, anything around these fumes will rust, and they are toxic to breath.

Sodium hydroxide is a strong base and will neutralize the acid, it must be added slowly and carefully, sodium bicarbonate is not as strong and will work but it will foam up with small additions of powder and is hard to keep in the bucket, and you must add it very slow, let bubbles CO2 gas settle stir well, so you do not foam out metals, it will also take more powder to make solution neutral.
 
Sorry to dig up an old thread but I have a question. Is it correct to say that if the"driving off excess nitric acid" step was fumbled for whatever reason, the addition of more copper than actually required into the AR at the cementing stage would solve the issue?

....and if it does not what should I do?
 
With excess nitric acid the solution will consume more copper metal, the excess nitric acid will keep metals oxidized until the excess nitric is used, but if the copper bar is left in solution eventually the nitric is used up in the reaction with copper, and any metal below copper in reactivity will cement out of solution.
 

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