Noob goin in . . .GETTA A GOOD SEAT!!!

[Backroads]

Greetings everyone,

I originally joined to learn how to get silver plate off of wires . . . When that did'nt work, I went back and started rereading, to see where I messed up . . .I never really found out, but decided doing gold first, sounded like a better middle step before I go to silver (I like the look of silver more . . .+ Juan Manuel seems to offer his hospitality in Mexico and a bottle of Tequilla to successful noobs with silver, AAiiuy Carumba!!!!)
So, realizing I would probably end up in a Mexican Jail, I should probably have bail money, first, before I do silver, so I have this mess of floor sweeps from an electronics manufacturer, (I'll post some pics), I'm thinkin AP this time, or HCL and bleach. I've read Hoke twice, and scanned old posts for several months now (note to noobs, any links older than 2010, don't bother, theyr'e history) and these sweeps are low grade, highly polluted waste, I'm considering. There's alot of it, I'm having trouble to keep collecting it, and really need a success to stay motivated. I don't get any reaction I can read, from my 10K soloution from Ebay, but also don't have any known sample to compare to. I have stannous crystals and tin solder ( solder misplaced at the moment). What makes me think, there's gold there? The manufacturer makes parts for sound electronics (amplifiers, etc.) and aircraft and even componets for the space shuttle. The waste is lathe turnings, from what appears to be the center shaft of a multi-function push/pull switch. Like the old headlight switches in cars. . .makes sense gold would be a componet, since electrical contact is where gold lives. If not I'll live, but I just can't keep picking up 30+ lbs. each week (about 11 after incineration) along with the silver plated wire, without some idea theres something worth going after. Your opinions appreciated, I can still make nitric, I'll do a cell if I have to, but intitially I think the cheaper longer processes, sound better suited to low grade wastes. . . I'm not concerned at this point about "losing values" somewhere . . .mostly want to know what else is there besides CU. Thanks, Tim

(yes, yes, yes, I read Hoke, used search, watch Steves videos, went to the mount, kissed the grail, drank from the Popes' ring . . . uh-oh . . . wait a sec . . . I think I mighta messed up on those last two . . . nevermind)

 

[Oz]

(note to noobs, any links older than 2010, don't bother, theyr'e history)

I have issues with blanket statements like that. Especially when you are here saying you do not know what to do or what the values are in what you are buying, but you are an authority as to this forum? I say this because I have been buying, selling, and dealing with precious metals for over 30 years. Having said that, I have only been on this forum for maybe 2 years or so. I would have to say that 90% of the knowledge I see of value that has come to me from this forum I gained in my first 6 months here (that would be a year and a half ago). After that most of what I write here is helping others, I believe in giving back.

Some of the early posts on this forum have the real meat on the bones. The reason why? How many times would you wish to repeat yourself after you have retired from refining? Not to mention you would be doing it for free. This is the main reason I post here. I have little new to say, but I can save our founding members their time replying to repetitive questions. Speaking of which, if people would do a search on this forum (inclusive of prior to 2010) they would find 95% of their questions have already been answered.

(yes, yes, yes, I read Hoke, used search, watch Steves videos, went to the mount, kissed the grail, drank from the Popes' ring . . . uh-oh . . . wait a sec . . . I think I mighta messed up on those last two . . . nevermind)

This sounds like “been there, done that, got the t-shirt”. I have to ask (given what you have said), why exactly are you asking us our opinion?

 

[Backroads]

?????

Oz, mostly I was referring to pictures, and offsite links, that are suggested in old forums . . .I in no WAY meant to say "been there, done that", The spirit it was meant in, was when new members go thru the old posts, as suggested, be prepared that pictures and links, people speak of will likely not come up . . .that was all. If my post was arrogant in any way, I apologize, it certainly was not my intent. Regards, Tim

 

[Oz]

Tim,

You sound genuine in your reply. But you have to admit it sounds, just, ever so possibly, by some stretch of my imagination, that if one has stated that they have “went to the mount, kissed the grail, drank from the Popes ring, that possibly they are claiming some higher knowledge and understanding. The forum has indeed gone through some changes that means some pictures and links are no longer available. I am sorry if I misinterpreted your words. That is the great thing about open minded individuals wishing to help each other. They are willing to accept “constructive” criticism and do not feel they have the only answer.

Pleasure to meet you.

 

[Backroads]

Oz,

Also a pleasure. Regarding the "been to the mount" it was meant as a lead in to the "drank from the ring, kissed the gauntlet", reversal, which obviously did not produce the humour it was intended to . . ., but it was also partially there to deflect, the often repeated read Hoke. I don't have the manual with me right now, but somewhere in pgs. 30-49 is a basic nitric procedure, no matter how many times I read it, literally sounds to me like mix the filtrate, and the soloution back together . . .what the correct procedure is . . .well, I'm not getting it from there . . .and I've tried.
And the old threads . . .Geez, just clouds my mind even further .. .Whatever happened to C*****h?, he just like "dissappeared". What about G****v?, is he actually back as someone else? . . R****? I'm not exactly sure why he left alot of his old posts deleted . . .and alot of the deletes are factual, not flames (apparently, but info I was following and would like to have, if it is).
I have read threads with other new posters .. . Well,I recall a few where (let me be clear, I clearly did'nt understand, any of the exchanges) someone was somehow trying to establish a history, so they could sell themselves, or info on Ebay, which . . .I don't know, a scam I'm not familiar with, but not my intent . . . My gut reaction with some new posters is also negative. Probably cause I sense they only got dollar signs in their eyes, and don't want to work for it. I'm willing to do the work, but I'm at snag, and its time to try something different. . . .that's all.

Pleasure to meet you too, sometimes a little growling is good way to know someone . . .don't you think?

Regards, Tim

 

[lazersteve]

Tim,

The old posts that have missing photos or links can usually be fixed if we know about them. A good percentage of them are broken because the forum has been migrated to new servers a few times and changed PHPBB versions once or twice also. These behind the scenes changes have left a trail of anomalies that I have already mentioned.

The remaining missing and deleted items are just that : some members have changed identities and deleted their old posts and/or attachments. These must be fixed by the folks who originally posted them. If you take some time to study who is saying what it's easy enough to identify the ones who have adopted new/multiple identities.

If you find a broken image or hyperlink in an old post, let me know and I'll do my best to fix it for you.

I agree with Oz, the bulk of the meat of this forum was posted prior to 2010 with the exception of most of 4Metals posts. His posts present some interesting inside views on refining processes that most of us have never experienced do to the scale we work on. He's also very accomplished when it comes to refining techniques and chemistry. It's great to know that there is always something to learn here, for everyone, no matter when the information was posted.

Welcome to the forum.

Steve

 

[Gold]

Catfish is still around and doing good. I haven't talked to him in a couple of weeks now but he's still kicking and enjoying refining gold when he gets the chance. Ralph has been off on some of his crazy adventures somewhere out there and keeps track of things from time to time. The others i can't speak for. If your having trouble finding information from old posts or links just let me know and i'll try and find the info. A lot of the old info from the forum was lost during our growth period when the forum was young but i have most of it backed up on cd's somewhere.

 

[Oz]

I don't know Gold, that Ralph guy was pretty good at finding old outdated info, you would be hard pressed to equal him in this regard ;-)

 

[butcher]

I agree Oz,
Gold that cat spinning records reminds me of an older, very helpful member. he loved cats.

 

[Backroads]

Thank You everyone for responding. Steve 3 of the images I remember from a 2007 post was you telling someone how to prepare circuit boards, actually harvest, if its not too much trouble, yeah as a noob I remember that thread being helpful, but don't kill yourself. I know you have a tutorial on it, and I'm going three different directions with work right now, I'll pm them when I get a chance. Yes, I picked up on 4metals, but obviously way outta my league. Gold I'm not sure who "Ralph" is. If he's G*****v, the patricular thread that left me hanging, was on silver refining. He got mad at another member/moderator and went back and deleted a bunch of posts. I can understand wanting to retract angry words, after an encounter, but he even erased stuff previous to the misunderstanding. Stuff that by surrounding posts, has information, but again it'll take me some time to find it. It was on silver anyway, and I gotta get this gold thing down first I can see. That is a nice offer, Thanks.
Oz, I meant to mention before, I'm not buying this waste . . .they're throwing it out . . .have been throwing it out for 5 years . . .I know because I've dived theyr'e dumpster weekly for up to 20 lbs. of silver coated wire. Not really pertinent, except they'res a HUGE payload of stuff, I find I see people asking about . . .if anyones interested I'll list details, and I have offered a couple people to send em stuff, just for the shipping sometimes not even that, but thought I'd mention it. I might post some pics later, right now they'res no recession in South Florida. Its like somebody rang a bell, and all the tourists came at once, back to work. I heard no objection to my AP and acid chlorox, so I guess thats where I'll start since its gonna need to sit.
Regards, Tim

 

[butcher]

Tim, it will take a little bit of study before you can get started, there is plenty of information, and it seems very complicated at first, make notes of differrent processes, read HOKE's book. follow her instructions to learning reaction's, see general reaction list, visit Laser Steves web site, start with an easy process, study it till you understand it, follow the proceedures in detail, (gold foils from fingers following Laser Steve's method's is a good starting point) he makes it so easy and discussions are numerous on the subject, you can even see the process on his web site, as you go along things will become more clear, do not worry about getting gold at first, expiriment at first, you will have troubles at first, and it is better to learn on scrap we can afford to lose, saving your high value scrap to process after you become comfortable getting gold from your expieriments, and we need to learn to walk before we can run, very few posts have been deleted, from the forum, and what has been the same information is still here in one form or another, and many of the posts are discussed over and over so you are not missing information it is all still here, in fact there is so much to absorb on the forum it can get overwelming, you just need patients before it starts to come to light for you. this is like trying to learn electronics, it takes time before you can build a power supply, you will need to learn the language of gold and silver, the different processes, reactions you will encounter and different processes and recovery and refining methods to use when and why.

you would not find much on deplating silver coated copper as it is not been worth the trouble as silver is so hard to deal with, copper and silver so close in reactivity series of metals, the reactions of these metals in acids we use, so much copper to deal with, most of this type silver plated articles are sold for copper, there is a possibility it can be done but that is very slim, and then there may not be any profit, and likely loose the value it has as scrap copper.

even though you read Hoke read more, most all your questions are answered there,
she will not cover acid peroxide and HCL/bleach methods, but without a good understanding of what she teaches you will be handicapped in this field.

 

[Backroads]

Butcher, Thanx for your response. First let me say I have no intention of dismissing Hoke, or the basics. I just need a lab to go with lecture, so to speak. Gotta stretch my legs, sometimes, when I'm learnin somethin new.
Second let me say this is NOT high grade waste . . .I can't fully explain that except to say I built boats, commercial boats, for five years for a saltwater enviorment. With the huge assortment of metals, involved with that, you learn a few things about metals, nobility, galvanaic action, or you got some PO'd crab fisherman raisin hell with you cause his $2000 motor mounts are now a pile of rust (and there always BIG guys . . . never little shrimpy guys) and it suddenly dawns on you, You forgot to put that second zinc on his rudder, and you also get a feel for metals. There is some kind of white metal, in this mess. Antimony I think, mayb zinc, but definitely garbage metal, and I'd go broke, trying nitric . . .well, . . .OK . . .I'm broke already, but more broke, or brokerer
(are you allowed to do that to the English language???) Irregardless, I can't pick up any more, or my garage is gonna explode . . .
I like HOke, I like Steve's videos . . . I like GSP's stories . . .but I'm at "Max Saturation" here . . . can't even pick up this weeks 40lbs. I haven't incinerated the last 3 bunches, and I need a break, anyway . . .
I'm gettin to the point, I gotta step outside, to change my mind . . .so . . .if you see a big red cloud comin from the south . . .START RUNNIN!!!
It'll be fine . . .just update your insurance policy, make sure the charcoals fresh in the respirator . . .
Seriously, I'm not lazy with studying . . .and I'm not after a shortcut. A short change of pace, and I'll be back . . .not sure with what . . .but I'll return, . . .probably with limbs intact . . .

Happy Thanksgiving,
Tim


(edited to correct typo)

 

[Backroads]

Greetings everyone,

I get the feeling there's not a lot of interest in this, so I'll just give a final update. I incinerated about 20 lbs net, before burning a hole thru a coveted Stainless steel barrel, with a blower that was apparently too powerful. Worked good up till then no smoke, little fumes, I based it on a furnace the sheriffs dept. has here, called the drugeater. I never got to look inside it, but it must have refractory lining. Plus their's is a carbon steel drum, I was concerned about rust though, with our tropical climate. They store theirs inside when not in use.
I put a pound in a soloution of 1 gal 32% HCL, then added two quarts H2O2, over a half hour. The reacting only lasted about 6 hours, so I began alternating adding 1 quart H2O2, then half a gallon HCL. I put in about another 3 gals, before I had to stop and evaporate off, about half of it, then another 3 gals, evaporate, all over 9days. Day 6 had foils and some white metal left, but the foils dissolved, while about 2 grams of white metal, took another 3 days (with an added bubbler). I pulled out an ounce, neutralize it with bakins soda and tested with stannous, with no color change. I'm uncomfortable about the baking soda, instead of urea, so I'm waiting on 1 lb. from Ebay. I'm making my stannous by disolving Stannous crystals in 1/2 oz. 32% HCL, then adding an inch of Tin solder. On closer examination, I realized Radio Shack sold me silver solder, instead of Tin (but they charged a Tin price $3.50) so my soloution is "iffy" too.
Everything is disolved now, so my next move is to retest with urea, then Stannous with tin solder added. If its still negative, I'm going to send a sample out to be tested, while repeating this process, with about 50 fingers and 20 cpus, not so much for the gold but to check my Stannous is good.
I also welded up a pretty big mold . . ., if nothing else I'll recover the copper ( the soloution is very pregnent with it) cause I just like the stuff.
I'm not done yet. Lessons learned so far, would be improvements to my incinerator, study ph testing, and I need more practice/experience testing gold.
For what its worth, I'm happy with that . . .I would'nt be this far without everyone thats shared their formulas.

Thanks, Tim

 

[qst42know]

Review the acid peroxide (AP) process. You will find no mention of baking soda or urea. Do you understand the purpose of the AP process, do you know how to tell when it's finished?

A pinch of this material dissolved in a test tube is all you need to prove the presence of anything of value. From your fuzzy photos I see plated brass. Without a positive test you are wasting quite a bit of money on chemicals.

 

[Backroads]

(sigh)

I tried . . . honest to God , I tried . . .

 

[qst42know]

A half dozen test tubes would be a good investment.

 

[butcher]

back roads, I have to admit it is hard to keep up with the forum, and the more written in a post I normally do not go back and read all of it.

I agree with Qst42know you do not want 50 gal. of waste to find there is no gold. slow down some, spend some time learning, maybe start learning the testing, follow Hokes getting aquinted with reactions, maybe do some foils (memory card fingers) or something easy in small batch'e to get aquanted. the learning curve will go faster if you learn the basic's first.

and I do not understand your need for urea, are you using (nitric acid) Aqua regia or copper chloride leach?

 

[Backroads]

Butcher,
The process is Acid Peroxide. My understanding was ph had to be 1 for Stannous to be accurate. I'm not really going to go back and find where I read that anytime soon. Sorry this isn't working. The process is done everything dissolved, I don't really care if gold is there or not. The total cost was around $15 . . .its costing me about $1000 for my daughter's chemistry course, at UCF. Cheap education by my math. There was a point where I was enjoying it . . .

Anyway . . .

 

[Palladium]

Oz,Whatever happened to C*****h?, he just like "dissappeared". What about G****v?, is he actually back as someone else? . . R****? I'm not exactly sure why he left alot of his old posts deleted . . .and alot of the deletes are factual, not flames (apparently, but info I was following and would like to have, if it is).



Regards, Tim

I just wanted to take a minute to let everyone know that their a new member here on the forum that goes by the name catfish-son. He is the son of Tom (Catfish). I contacted him a couple of days ago to see if he was actually the son of Catfish because i haven't heard from my old buddy in quiet awhile. Unfortunately he informed me that Tom is no longer with us. I say this with tears in my eyes as i think about the contributions he made not only to the forum, but as my friend also. Tom was a good man.

You will be missed my friend !!!!!!!

 

[jimdoc]

Oz,Whatever happened to C*****h?, he just like "dissappeared". What about G****v?, is he actually back as someone else? . . R****? I'm not exactly sure why he left alot of his old posts deleted . . .and alot of the deletes are factual, not flames (apparently, but info I was following and would like to have, if it is).



Regards, Tim

I just wanted to take a minute to let everyone know that their a new member here on the forum that goes by the name catfish-son. He is the son of Tom (Catfish). I contacted him a couple of days ago to see if he was actually the son of Catfish because i haven't heard from my old buddy in quiet awhile. Unfortunately he informed me that Tom is no longer with us. I say this with tears in my eyes as i think about the contributions he made not only to the forum, but as my friend also. Tom was a good man.

You will be missed my friend !!!!!!!

That is sad news.

Jim