Noob Questions

Ssparks258 · Jan 23, 2014

I have just recently joined this forum and I have spent a lot of time browsing through and searching these forum for answers to my questions and while I have been able to find some great information I get confused when reading all these different post. Some things seem to contradict other and I do not want to do anything without being 100% sure. So I hope that this does not break any rules of this site. I apologize ahead of time if I am doing so. I just don't like doing anything without direct answers about my exact situation.

I have recently become interested in scrapping precious metals and I already have quite a collections. I work in a factory that actually produces circuit boards and I have easy access to their e-waste and have collected things I feel I can profit from. I have fully populated circuit boards, Un-populated circuit boards (with tons of gold plating), computer servers, ram, CPU's, and much more. So here are my questions:

1. I am going to use the A/P process to recover the gold from all gold fingers I have (ram boards, PCI boards, ect.). Now I also have a lot of gold leads. From the information I have gathered I can use a hot hcl process to remove the gold from them. Reverse electroplating seems interesting but as a noob I want to try less advanced processes until I feel comfortable with it. I want to be sure that this process is the correct one to use.

2. Now I watched a video today on lazersteve's website about removing solder mask which seems pretty basic so now I am going to get a lot more bare circuit boards from work that were masked. With the bare circuit boards is it alright to use the A/P process or should I use something different? From my understanding it should work the same as gold finger but like I said I want to be 100% sure before I do this.

3. I watched a video on YouTube about the A/P process and the guy said that the A/P solution can be used indefinitely as long as it is properly maintained. I have also read many forums that say the same thing. By properly maintaining I am assuming that means to keep foreign materials out of the solution such as solder. Am I correct in assuming that? Also he said that after the solution gets used several times, putting a stainless steal butter knife into the solution will attract all the copper from the solution and revitalize the solution. Is that also true?

This is all I am going to ask for now. If you feel like these questions have been asked before I am very sorry. Could you please put a link to any forums that will help me with these situations if that is the case. I am going to continue browsing these forums looking for more information. I want to be sure I know what I am doing, mainly because I want to be safe but also because I do not want to loose any gold.

P.S. also I am a visual learner. Reading books or a lot of text doesn't benefit me as much. I have a harder time understanding what I am reading. So if anyone knows of any videos out there that pertain to my situation please add the link in your response. That would help me greatly. And I have already watched all the videos on lazersteve's site so there is no need to reference his website.

Safety is a major concern when doing this, luckily my job help me out by having all the gloves, safety glasses, and other safety material needed to keep myself protected. I am also working on getting a fume booth if that's what you call it. I just don't want people on here thinking that I am not taking this serious.

Pantherlikher · Jan 23, 2014

Hi and welcome to "THIS" forum. The right forum if you wish to learn to do things the right way.

Reading is a major pain but needs to be done before diving into an empty pool.
Without first learning why things are done a certain way can lead to not only hurting yourself but others around you as well as creating hazzardous matierals and solutiomns.

Please take the time to read the wecome section followed by the Safety section.

If nothing else, please read through those 2.

Poking around the posts in here can be dangerous if you do not know better.
There are well explained "right ways" and wrong ways.

For instance, why it's important to keep your AP solution clean. You could lose gold if not done right. There is no easy explanation unless you learn the process and it's pitfalls.

Do a search on AP in the google search here and you'll read early postings on the subject. Then, as the forum gets refined, you will see the process change little by little for many reasons.

This is key in learning not only AP but also what to do next and how to treat "Spent" AP solution.

Good Luck and let us know.

B.S.

niteliteone · Jan 23, 2014

Hello and welcome to the forum 8)
In reading your post, you have researched what you want to do, found the best way to do it and are asking if this thinking is correct.
At least that is what I understand.
This "IS" acceptable to forum desires as far as I am concerned as you are just verifying what you have read is good information or not.
I will do what I can to address your concerns.
1. The AP process is the simplest, cost effective method to recover gold foils from circuit boards as long as you remove all lead and tin before using this mix.
You remove the lead and tin by soaking the boards in diluted HCl water solution. This will remove most of the lead and/or tin and solder on the boards. It can also be used to de-populate boards if you feel rich.

Your gold plated pins must be run separately from any other material and the reverse electrolytic cell is the quickest most cost effective method I know of.
HCl will be pretty slow but sooner or later it will finish dissolving the base metals.
Nitric will also work for most pins as ling as tin is not involved to make a mess. Expensive but fast.
Still the electrolytic cell is my first choice for most pins.

2. The only reason to remove the masking from boards is if there is gold plating under it. 99% of boards I have ever seen only had copper under the mask so their is really no need for removal on any but that 1%.

On the bare circuit boards you have access to, you only need to place them into the AP solution with spacers between the boards and add an air stone with a fish tank air pump to bubble air through the solution to help speed up the process.

3. You are correct that the AP solution will last a long time as long as only copper is placed in solution. Their are many threads here on how to maintain the solution. Just remember to keep it copper only and it will have a long life.

That Stainless trick is news to me. I have never heard of it.
To rejuvenate your AP solution you just need to bubble air through it and add a little fresh HCL now and then.

Next :shock:
Just kidding. Welcome in
If I got anything wrong or not enough information, others will join in.

g_axelsson · Jan 24, 2014

Hi and welcome.

The stainless steel to rejuvenate acid peroxide is not true. The only way you can remove copper from the solution with iron is by cementation and that will put iron in solution instead, contaminating the solution with iron.

Iron is usually used for cementation when treating waste from the copper chloride (acid peroxide, AP) process. Read more about treating your waste before starting any process.

If you don't want to read, tough luck! That is how most information is presented here on the forum... but I'll let you in on a well preserved secret, the easiest way to refine scrap is to sell it on eBay and then buying gold bullion for the profit.

8)

Göran

Ssparks258 · Jan 24, 2014

niteliteone said:
Hello and welcome to the forum 8)
In reading your post, you have researched what you want to do, found the best way to do it and are asking if this thinking is correct.
At least that is what I understand.
This "IS" acceptable to forum desires as far as I am concerned as you are just verifying what you have read is good information or not.
I will do what I can to address your concerns.
1. The AP process is the simplest, cost effective method to recover gold foils from circuit boards as long as you remove all lead and tin before using this mix.
You remove the lead and tin by soaking the boards in diluted HCl water solution. This will remove most of the lead and/or tin and solder on the boards. It can also be used to de-populate boards if you feel rich.

Your gold plated pins must be run separately from any other material and the reverse electrolytic cell is the quickest most cost effective method I know of.
HCl will be pretty slow but sooner or later it will finish dissolving the base metals.
Nitric will also work for most pins as ling as tin is not involved to make a mess. Expensive but fast.
Still the electrolytic cell is my first choice for most pins.

2. The only reason to remove the masking from boards is if there is gold plating under it. 99% of boards I have ever seen only had copper under the mask so their is really no need for removal on any but that 1%.

On the bare circuit boards you have access to, you only need to place them into the AP solution with spacers between the boards and add an air stone with a fish tank air pump to bubble air through the solution to help speed up the process.

3. You are correct that the AP solution will last a long time as long as only copper is placed in solution. Their are many threads here on how to maintain the solution. Just remember to keep it copper only and it will have a long life.

That Stainless trick is news to me. I have never heard of it.
To rejuvenate your AP solution you just need to bubble air through it and add a little fresh HCL now and then.

Next :shock:
Just kidding. Welcome in
If I got anything wrong or not enough information, others will join in.

Thank you so much for your help. And you are right. I have done a lot of reading on here about the different processes and I am just trying to understand everything as best I can. I just want to be 100% sure before I do this. The replies on here from other members, while helpful, seem to misunderstand what I meant when I posted this. I did not say that I "DID NOT" want to read through everything, I just meant that I have a harder time understanding things when I am reading them and I learn better when watching a video or by having someone show me in person. I am not being lazy, I just need to verify that I am understanding the stuff I am reading before diving into this. I do spend a lot of time reading through many of these forums and I am trying to learns as much as I can.

Pantherlikher · Jan 25, 2014

Hi Ssparks258

Is good you clarifed what you ment.
I too find it difficult to grasp something unless I see it happen. That's why doing small experiments on what's learned is important. Read the words about how and why, visualizing. Then do a small batch exactly as stated to verify the process in your mind. Taking notes of anything with question.

Hoke's book is great at the basics but has many flaws. But it's a great start to get an idea on the how. The forum if followed step by step from the welcome section will lead to the experiments to solidify the processes in your mind.

Gotta read through to get all the steps and what ifs down. Like what dangers lurk when "accidents" happen also known as carelessness. Like simply pouring some HCL, muratic acid, into a container without having proper ventalation.

That all said and done, start small and see it happen. The best start I have found is the AP process. The collecting part of the equation.

Good luck and always enjoy what you do safely for life is short and fragile.

B.S.