Okay how do i turn a palladium one gram bar into powder

[arcitokeliterature]

I have one idea in mind. High pressure liquid. Anyone wanna tell me how that won't work.

Just need a powder goddammit it. Crushed it into crystals maybe need to molten it! Then colloidalise it into water. Then heat up small volume. Won't be a powder but close enough. Concentration high. Then crush up some more pd to connect them together. Strong solution.

Aahg why is pd powder hard to make. I bet they'll figure it out in 20 years. Too little, too late. I need it now and fast🖐

 

[Yggdrasil]

I have one idea in mind. High pressure liquid. Anyone wanna tell me how that won't work.

Just need a powder goddammit it. Crushed it into crystals maybe need to molten it! Then colloidalise it into water. Then heat up small volume. Won't be a powder but close enough. Concentration high. Then crush up some more pd to connect them together. Strong solution.

Aahg why is pd powder hard to make. I bet they'll figure it out in 20 years. Too little, too late. I need it now and fast🖐

Welcome to us.
First, do not use profanities.

Next your starting argument do not make much sense unless you state which liquid, what material and yo what means.
It clear up a bit to the end og the post but it is still a lot of information hanging in the air.

So what material do you start with and what do your end product supposed to be?

What liquid are you refering to and which pressure?

If you answer this, we might have something to start with.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I have one idea in mind. High pressure liquid. Anyone wanna tell me how that won't work.

Just need a powder goddammit it. Crushed it into crystals maybe need to molten it! Then colloidalise it into water. Then heat up small volume. Won't be a powder but close enough. Concentration high. Then crush up some more pd to connect them together. Strong solution.

Aahg why is pd powder hard to make. I bet they'll figure it out in 20 years. Too little, too late. I need it now and fast🖐

I see now the important part of your question is in the header.
This should always be in the actual post as well.

 

[Martijn]

I have one idea in mind. High pressure liquid. Anyone wanna tell me how that won't work.

Just need a powder goddammit it. Crushed it into crystals maybe need to molten it! Then colloidalise it into water. Then heat up small volume. Won't be a powder but close enough. Concentration high. Then crush up some more pd to connect them together. Strong solution.

Aahg why is pd powder hard to make. I bet they'll figure it out in 20 years. Too little, too late. I need it now and fast🖐

With an atomizer, high pressure liquid on molten metal stream?

 

[Yggdrasil]

I think you already can purchase Pd and the other PMs as powder so there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a particular reason you want/need to do it yourself?

 

[Ultrax]

1) Dissolve metallic palladium in nitric acid.
2) Add HCl to the solution and convert palladium nitrate to palladium chloride with boiling for 15-20 minutes.
3) Use ammonium formate NH₄HCO₂, to precipitate palladium powder.
-----------
Or you can precipitate palladium via hydrazine and DMG.

 

[kurtak]

1) Dissolve metallic palladium in nitric acid.
2) Add HCl to the solution and convert palladium nitrate to palladium chloride with boiling for 15-20 minutes.
3) Use ammonium formate NH₄HCO₂, to precipitate palladium powder.
-----------
Or you can precipitate palladium via hydrazine and DMG.

Even easier then that (if he is starting with a pure Pd bar) would be to dissolve it with the nitric - then simply cement it with zinc

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

I have one idea in mind. High pressure liquid. Anyone wanna tell me how that won't work.

It will work - it is known as atomization

You can read a VERY detailed thread about it here -----------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/is-it-possible-925-sterling-silver-powder.30689/

I bet they'll figure it out in 20 years.

so you don't need to wait 20 years to figure it out - already been figured out

The problem is setting up to do it in this way is not very practical for just a 1 gram bar

So - if you want to turn a 1 gram bar into powder the easiest way to do that is to dissolve it in nitric acid then cement the Pd back out of the nitric solution with zinc - the result will be an ULTRA fine black Pd powder in the bottom of your beaker

Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

The OP came, posted and left one minutes later.
So maybe he will be back again....

 

[Ultrax]

Even easier then that (if he is starting with a pure Pd bar) would be to dissolve it with the nitric - then simply cement it with zinc

Kurt

In this case, the precipitate will be partially coagulated, and a very fine, uniform powder will not be obtained. To obtain palladium powder (for example, for catalysts), chemical precipitation is better than cementation. In addition, palladium cementation will always be incomplete and there will be significant losses.

P. S. CONSTANT (!) stirring is a necessary condition for obtaining high-quality powder.

 

[kurtak]

palladium cementation will always be incomplete and there will be significant losses.

This just is not true - In fact - with chemical precipitation there is almost always at least traces of metals left in solution

That is why for YEARS refineries sent their solutions through a cementing process to recover those traces after chemical precipitation - now days they have developed & use resins in place of cementing to recover the trace metals left in solution after chemical precipitation

The entire purpose of "stock pot cementing" is to recover ALL the metals that went into solution because OFTEN times chemical precipitation does not get them all

Kurt

 

[100tific]

Even easier then that (if he is starting with a pure Pd bar) would be to dissolve it with the nitric - then simply cement it with zinc

Kurt

i think first zinc will be dissolved in nitric acid, and when there are no more nitric it will precipitate the Pd no?

 

[Yggdrasil]

i think first zinc will be dissolved in nitric acid, and when there are no more nitric it will precipitate the Pd no?

No, the metal will swap electrons with the Pd ions so the Pd will drop out as metal.
If the Zinc dissolves it is basically useless since it will be an ionic salt too.

Edit to swap word

 

[goldshark]

I have one idea in mind. High pressure liquid. Anyone wanna tell me how that won't work.

Just need a powder goddammit it. Crushed it into crystals maybe need to molten it! Then colloidalise it into water. Then heat up small volume. Won't be a powder but close enough. Concentration high. Then crush up some more pd to connect them together. Strong solution.

Aahg why is pd powder hard to make. I bet they'll figure it out in 20 years. Too little, too late. I need it now and fast🖐

Do you have a certain specification for the powder size?

 

[Ultrax]

This just is not true - In fact - with chemical precipitation there is almost always at least traces of metals left in solution

That is why for YEARS refineries sent their solutions through a cementing process to recover those traces after chemical precipitation - now days they have developed & use resins in place of cementing to recover the trace metals left in solution after chemical precipitation

The entire purpose of "stock pot cementing" is to recover ALL the metals that went into solution because OFTEN times chemical precipitation does not get them all

Kurt

There will always be traces of metal in the solution. Quantitative(!) selective precipitation of palladium is ensured only by dimethylglyoxime. This is due to many properties of palladium. There are scientific studies on palladium and nickel by the Russian chemist Lev Chugaev, who synthesized DMG at the beginning of the 20th century. Another well-known name for DMG is “Chugaev’s reagent”. Perhaps they are not available in English, I don’t know, I've read it in Russian.

Cementation of palladium will not give equal results to chemical precipitation at the same (!) time.
If you have several days for 99,9% precipitation and particles size uniformity does not matter, use cementation.
I can certainly try to explain why complexation works better than ionic-exchange reaction, but I think in the context of the forum this is not important.
All options provide an acceptable metal yield from a practical point of view.

The problem I actually touched on is the inability to obtain palladium powder suitable for catalysis due to parasitic coagulation and alien ions capture during the cementation process.

The powder obtained by cementation will work as a catalyst 10 times worse than that obtained by chemical precipitation.

P. S. And yes, we didn’t talk about the precipitation of all metals. We were talking about pure palladium and obtaining ultra-fine powder from it. Therefore, the remaining theses about ion exchange resins and the precipitation of ALL metals take the discussion in the other direction.

P. P. S Slightly edited the semantics

 

[orvi]

I don´t know if it is only my suspicion, but 1 g of metal bar into palladium metal powder... I hope that no one is trying to use that for illicit purposes

However, if there is question asked on how to make powdered palladium, I doubt that this can go much further in the "organic" side of the chemistry

 

[Ultrax]

I don´t know if it is only my suspicion, but 1 g of metal bar into palladium metal powder... I hope that no one is trying to use that for illicit purposes

However, if there is question asked on how to make powdered palladium, I doubt that this can go much further in the "organic" side of the chemistry

"Organic" part of this process is limited by DMG By the way, I wonder what illegal uses palladium powder has? Honestly, I don't even know its criminal uses. This is not thallium (God forbid of course) so that someone can be intentionally poisoned with it? Can palladium form organic poisons? Never heard of this.

 

[Yggdrasil]

"Organic" part of this process is limited by DMG By the way, I wonder what illegal uses palladium powder has? Honestly, I don't even know its criminal uses. This is not thallium (God forbid of course) so that someone can be intentionally poisoned with it? Can palladium form organic poisons? Never heard of this.

It may or may not suit as a catalyst for certain organic compounds not legal to produce, maybe.
This is not my domain.

 

[Ultrax]

Maybe Orvi knows something about it? We don’t take the movie “Iron Man” into account

 

[Yggdrasil]

Maybe Orvi knows something about it? We don’t take the movie “Iron Man” into account

Anyway it is not even close to what we do here in this forum, so better keep this kind of discussion outside the forum.