Origins of AP Method?

[vegaswinner]

I'm now deep into Hoke and as yet have not seen a mention of peroxide being used. I just wondered when did refiners start using peroxide in the refining process?? and what does it replace or where does it fit in with some of the methods described in Hoke? Thanks

 

[jimdoc]

I'm now deep into Hoke and as yet have not seen a mention of peroxide being used. I just wondered when did refiners start using peroxide in the refining process?? and what does it replace or where does it fit in with some of the methods described in Hoke? Thanks

I would say is a modern day work around for lack of easy to find nitric. Hoke didn't have to worry about finding chemicals in her time.

Jim

 

[vegaswinner]

Thats good to hear, I feel more comfortable with AP... As yet I haven't used nitric. At what time could AP replace nitric in the process? I understand how it puts copper into solution, how does AP fair against lead in solder?

 

[jimdoc]

Lazer Steve has info and videos on the AP process at his website;
http://www.goldrecovery.us/

Jim

 

[Geo]

H2O2 is simply water with an extra atom of oxygen.it lends this extra atom of oxygen in your solution to the material that your working with and acts as an oxidizer.bubbling air through the solution does the same thing but peroxide has the extra atom "on demand" so to speak.in AP solution as you may know hcl acid does not dissolve copper.so how does it work? copper chloride is an etchant and will dissolve copper.where does the copper chloride come from? the hcl acid will hold copper in suspension but to get it in suspension you need an oxidizer in the acid to make copper oxide.hcl acid will readily dissolve copper oxide and convert it to copper chloride which in turn will dissolve copper in the presence of oxygen. so without a source of oxygen such as bubbling air through your solution you will forever be adding more peroxide to keep the reaction going.once you have made copper chloride solution and you have an air supply you will no longer need to add more peroxide.when you start a new batch use the copper chloride you already have and add a small amount of hcl acid to be able to hold more copper.

as a side note due to my experience using AP and experimenting with ways to reduce the copper content i have found that if you dilute your used AP solution with equal amounts of tap water solid copper chloride crystals will precipitate out of solution and then its just a matter of gently heating your solution to evaporate the water you added back to a usable state as AP solution minus a large portion of copper.

 

[butcher]

vegaswinner,
Copper chloride can be a name used for the soluble copper in green solution
(Copper II Chloride) (CuCl2),
Or copper chloride also the name used for the insoluble white powder (Copper I Chloride) (CuCl).

Laser Steve has a must read document on his web site.

Lead chloride is insoluble, also a white powder.
Lead chloride is fairly soluble in hot water, or dilute hot solutions.

Tin in solder will kind of dissolve in HCl/H2O2 (acid peroxide), although if much tin it is troublesome it almost dissolves, stays in solution, makes filtering and separating values troublesome, can make gold in solution form colloids (making you lose gold).

Tin is really a problem in nitric makes gooey Jelly.

Tin in acid peroxide does not seem to completely dissolve (tin dissolves better is strong concentrated acid that in dilute acid, but still trouble).

Tin is best kept out of your solutions as much as possible.

Solder will break down in acid peroxide (tin trouble and insoluble toxic lead compounds).
Solder will break down use hot concentrated HCL fairly well.

But an even better solution to this is some other pretreatment like incineration before washing in boiling HCL, and then boiling hot water washes.

Silver passivate’s in HCL (or acid peroxide), forming a crust of silver protecting the metal from dissolving.

Silver chloride also an insoluble white powder, (when in water it is photo sensitive {changes purple to black} (stay’s white in acid) {is not soluble in very hot water} {like the lead chloride is} (one method to separate lead and silver chloride).

There are many other salts are white and insoluble, some are more soluble than others, like the metal sodium (NaCl) table salt is soluble in water (of coarse until the water saturated to the point the water will hold no more table salt at that certain temperature) (we could heat that saturated salt solution and get the un-dissolved salt to dissolve with higher temperature) (most of the metals will react the same way in solution, temperature is a major factor of solubility).

So keep the tin out and get the lead out (as much as possible).