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Here we go damage control.
http://www.bullionstacker.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3503

things / people like this really make business not fun !!

Please read the bullion stacker thread, make your own decision, whether I'm dishonest.
 
I don't know on this one. I am not sure if I would offer any refund or even discussion about deal which is one year old. It is funny to think that if gold happen to be 400/oz he will want to be refunded in gold. He will cry for refund in $$$. Speculation and with help of his buddy (the only one who shared his view) extortion of 200$ extra. Funny reading. I would be having hard time to be willing to accept or offer refund one year after transaction. Year is long enough to get the same chain made or bought from 14k and have that stamped 18k - there is a lot of possibilities... I can easily get fake sovereign and start shouting around that he sold me fake year or two ago... And I want compensation.
I had no problem to send substantial amount of money to Peter and wait for goodies and I will have no problem to do that again. Especially now, when I see that he is willing to refund without hesitation.
 
The fact that he expected a refund a full year later is absurd to me.

I can vouch for Peter's credibility as well from my personal experiences with him.

I think Peter went above and beyond simply by agreeing to refund the purchase price a year later.

Steve
 
This guy is unreasonable and it sounds like you've done what's required to make it fair considering a.) the transaction was a year ago, b.) you offered to refund the original price, c.) although you didn't assay this (which would likely hurt the resale value), it was stamped 18K and was sold in good faith. If however, Peter said he assayed it as 18K and it wasn't, then there is a real problem in claiming one did an assay but didn't. Regardless, it was your mistake [Peter] not to assay it--you must always know your product, imagine if this were 22K (obviously stamped karat never runs high!). I understand this is very difficult to do without marring the piece and that everyone's idea of an assay is different (i.e. some people want fire assay, some will accept XRF, some will accept touch stone).

He should be reimbursed for what the agreement was--a year is a stretch, and it's obvious that he only mentioned it when he went to sell it and had someone come up with a different number. I'd be upset if I were him, and I would certainly expect my money back either in full, or in gold as per the original agreement at its value on that day of sale. Expect more than your fair share of monetary compensation in this case after so long seems a bit unfair. I don't know all the details, but if it were gold for gold, or gold for cash, it should be valued at the time of sale.

And Peter, this business is such that you'll never make every client entirely happy. This business, above all, is a service business and you are only as good as your reputation earned through exemplary service. Some might consider this bad business, but even if it costs me out of pocket, I'll make it right to my client if the error is mine. I try to be a reasonable fellow and treat clients how I'd like to be treated. I know what it's like to have been bulldogged by refiners and treated as an idiot. It's infuriating.

You have to do your best to upright, honest, and fair and put your clients before the bottom line. At the same time, you'll run into clients that can not and never will be made happy. Why? They're not grounded in reality and believe things are there when they aren't. Here's the real scoop about this business: everyone (especially beginners and people who are really hard up) thinks what they have is worth more than what it is. I've been guilty of it, you've been guilty of it, your clients, and mine. It's bias, pure and simple and is a function of psychology. I do my best to make clients happy, but I have run across several that I don't want to do business with, irrespective of what they bring me and how much I could make off of it. They're unscrupulous, irrational, and irascible and frankly, a bother to do business with because I already know they'll be trouble. I'm not trying to put one over on them, but they've clearly had such a bad experience with everyone, they assume it to be par for the course and are out for revenge. That said, they're trying to put one over on me.
 
i know pete and his brother ralph. been doing bussiness with there company for over 25 years. they are both honest stand up guys. one year later tell him to take a hike.
 
This one is brain dead simple as regards the notion that he expects a return greater than the purchase price. Turn the tables on him. Assuming gold had taken a dive, would he be happy with a refund that was smaller than the original deal?

Of course not!

Why then would he expect to get a larger return?

I smell a rat. Ask for proof of an assay, and insure that it relates to the object in question. Assays have no value if they aren't traceable to the source of material.

I refined for over twenty years, and treated my customers with total fairness. I can not recall even one instance where I withheld gold that did not belong to me---nor did I charge my customers an unreasonable fee for my services. In spite of my best attempts to be honest and fair, I lost a half dozen customers through the years, each positive he had been ripped off.

It happens. The reason often is because were they in your situation, they'd be dishonest and steal, so they expect others would as well.

Offer a full refund, and inform the individual that he's lucky you are willing to cooperate. If that isn't enough for him, that's what the judicial system is for.

Harold
 
Wow !! Reminds me of some of our threads. lol
I think p3m has been much more civil about the whole thing than i would have. Some people just want to act stupid.
I agree with p3m's approach 100%.
 
Just been through a very similar situation myself having sold an 18k white gold ring to a customer which they were unhappy about as it kept going yellow as the Rh plating wore off,
I hadn't made the ring but purchased it from a supplier. I had a new ring made in a good 18k white alloy containing Pd and returned it to my customer free of charge even though I feel I didn't actually cheat them I felt responsible as seems to be the case here.
Your offer to refund the purchase price seems more than fair to me and shows integrity and the will to be honest and open with your customer. If he wanted investment gold why not buy fine gold or coins instead of a piece of jewellery or ask to have it melted into a bar with an assay. How exactly has this item been tested by xrf or acid test or a full fire assay and by whom to determine it's 14k?
I still feel you have done the right thing with the offer you made and would be more than happy to trade with you based just on what I have seen here.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if this guy attempted to sell the chain and his buyer tried to rip him off telling him the chain is 14k. You may even find this guys buyer tested at a solder joint to get the low reading and the chain is 18k.

Part of the reason I sought out refining was being robbed on unmarked or worn items. Pieces I tested at 14k were always 10k on a buyers test.

Original item returned for the original price period irregardless of market movement up or down, a year later is huge stretch and beyond fair.

Establish a return policy for future transactions.
 
lazersteve said:
The fact that he expected a refund a full year later is absurd to me.

I can vouch for Peter's credibility as well from my personal experiences with him.

I think Peter went above and beyond simply by agreeing to refund the purchase price a year later.

Steve
I agree. My guess is that this customer is one of those "entitlement people". "I am not responsible for anything, and somebody owes me something".
 
Harold_V said:
The reason often is because were they in your situation, they'd be dishonest and steal, so they expect others would as well.
Harold
Great point. Not saying that this is true in this case, but people have beliefs, morals and ethics that are different than others, and know what they would do (or could do) if the shoe was on the other foot.
 
This guy had a whole year to find or stumble across a 14k look a like chain. After one year,who could positively identify it as the same chain?
P3M your offer to this person was over board. You are honorable in my book.
My wise old grandpa allways said for every bad or hard to deal with customer you close the door on ,you will gain two good ones.He was always right.
 
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