Palladium and Platinum without nitric acid

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nknewberry

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
6
This video shows how i extracted palladium and platinum from a catalytic converter without nitric acid. Instead i used a nitrate salt. It takes quite a bit of the nitrate salt but it is pretty cheap. I am currently working on boiling down the solution and getting the platinum out. subscribe to my channel and keep your eye out for that video[youtube][/youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsHWjFmf6fo
 
nknewberry

There is just so much wrong with your video I am not sure where to start :!:

How about we start with safety --- Are you aware that PGM (Platinum Group Metals) salts are "very dangerous" --- this means the metals that are dissolved into solution (which are dissolved salts) AND there salt complex's precipitated from solution (such as the DMG/Pd precipitated complex) --- you should not work with PGMs without proper fume control (fume hood &/or reaction vessels that incorporate a fume scrubber) - AND - why are you not wearing chem resistant gloves :?: (0:57 into your video) doing so is a MUST :!:

Next - leaching the PGMs from CATs is not easy to start with - in the first place you will never leach all the PGMs out - in fact you will be "lucky" to leach enough to even cover the value that you could have sold the CAT to a CAT buyer (scrap yard) for

Next - if you are going to leach CATs it should be done on "whole combs" with the comb set in the leach solution on a spacer (so solution is able to get under the comb) & the veins running vertical (so the solution can flow through the comb veins from bottom to top in the reaction vessel) --- by crushing the combs you have made the leach solution less effective (unless you provide "continuous" agitation) AND it is next to impossible to wash/filter all of the solution out of the crushed comb

Next - 5 hours is not even close to enough time to leach the PGMs out --- will PGMs go into solution - yes --- but not even close to the PGMS that are in it

Next - AR is NOT the best choice for leaching CATs --- though it will leach a fair (not all) amount of the Pd it will only leach some (not much) of the Pt & none of the Rh --- chlorine (bleach &/or chlorine tablets) is a better choice as the oxidizer for leaching the PGMs from CATs then nitric &/or nitrates --- so HCl/Cl instead of AR

Next - we "do not" advise using ammonium nitrate for PM refining on this forum for reasons explained in this thread :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=22641&hilit=ammonium+nitrate --- For safety reasons we advise using potassium nitrate (avalible as a stump remover) or sodium nitrate (avalible as a fertilizer)

Next - DMG is NOT a good choice for precipitating Pd from solution --- for one thing it is expensive & it takes 2.5 grams of DMG to precipitate 1 gram of Pd (& other reasons) rather we use it to test for Pd in solution (&/or Ni) & most of the time it is used to confirm a stannous test of Pd

Next - concerning preparing your DMG --- it is not a good idea to use "any kind" of alcohol (ethanol, methanol etc.) to dissolve your DMG --- in fact alcohol's have no business in refining at all - alcohol's mixed with acidic solutions that have metals dissolved in them have the potential to create explosive compounds - explosive fulminates &/or other explosive compound

The proper way to prepare your DMG is to dissolve 4 grams of NaOH in 100 ml of hot D-water in which you then dissolve 5.81 grams of DMG

I see you are a new member - You have just found one of the best sources of information about refining PMs (if not the best) in the world - here you will meet some of the best & most knowledgeable refiners in the world & we are here to help people like you (& I point this out because I don't want you to take what I am going to say next wrong)

At the beginning of your video you say - "Do not try this at home. I am an experienced chemist & understand the danger of this experiment. This video is for educational purposes and to show my experience with making precious metal refining simpler"

Based on the mistakes I have just pointed out in your video (& I did not point them al out) I have a hard time believing your opening statement in this video --- you still have a LOT to learning (which we will be more then glad to help you with) before you go posting what amounts to both mis-information & incomplete information that is going to lead other people down a path that WILL result in them hurting them selves (&/or yourself for that matter) - so I suggest you remove this video from the internet & that you start doing some real research here on the forum - starting with reading Hokes book which is a free down load here on the forum - which you can find in the signature line of any of FrugalRefiners posts

Again - I want to point out - working with PGM salts is VERY dangerous - you should avoid working with them (period) without compete knowledge of them &/or have a true & complete working lab set up

What you should have done - is you should have cemented the PGMs from your leach with zinc so they precipitated as the metals of PGMs --- instead of precipitating them as salts

You might want to check this thread out for more info about leaching CATs :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=20573&p=211969&hilit=leaching+CATs#p210836

I never quit finished the thread as I got busy with other things (at that time) & didn't get back to it - but there is still a lot of good info in it - the main point being it next to impossible to leach CATS & make a profit



Kurt
 
nknewberry said:
This video shows how i extracted palladium and platinum from a catalytic converter without nitric acid. Instead i used a nitrate salt. It takes quite a bit of the nitrate salt but it is pretty cheap. I am currently working on boiling down the solution and getting the platinum out. subscribe to my channel and keep your eye out for that video[youtube][/youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsHWjFmf6fo
In essence, though, you did use nitric acid, since you produced it from HCl plus the nitrate salt. The only difference is that you didn't have to buy the nitric. Its dangers were still present, though.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I would give your video about a 1.5. Pretty poor. I seem to remember that you recently posted another video which was about as bad as this one. The quality of information you are producing is what this forum has been fighting against since it started. Your video is misleading, incomplete, and potentially dangerous.

Surely you can do better than that.
 
Ok apparently this isnt the right place. I thought that most of the people on here had some knowledge of chemistry. Apparently not. If you dont understand the chemistry then dont play with it. Did you see the warning at the beginning of the video? it sounds like you didnt even pay attention. I am not trying to make a 5 star movie. I am just trying to show an example of what i found. Well I assumed a gold refining forum would be interested in REFINING GOLD apparently not. Why dont you go back to playing with your dirt and leave the chemistry to the big boys. everybody else on here probably is interested in what i posted but you are messing it up for them. PS i understand i am making nitric acid by adding the [stt]ANFO[/stt] Moderators Note: This member used ammonium nitrate, not ammonium nitrate an fuel oil. Never add this explosive mixture to HCl!! to the HCl. The point of the title was to say that you didnt need to isolate nitric acid for this reaction it is made in situ. Well I really figured a gold refining forum would appreciate this information but I guess not so I will go back to Youtube where people appreciate the info and leave you here to be a little safety advocate. Moderator's Note: I substituted "advocate" for a term for a female dog used by the OP.

Edited by FrugalRefiner
 
kurtak said:
nknewberry

There is just so much wrong with your video I am not sure where to start :!:

How about we start with safety --- Are you aware that PGM (Platinum Group Metals) salts are "very dangerous" --- this means the metals that are dissolved into solution (which are dissolved salts) AND there salt complex's precipitated from solution (such as the DMG/Pd precipitated complex) --- you should not work with PGMs without proper fume control (fume hood &/or reaction vessels that incorporate a fume scrubber) - AND - why are you not wearing chem resistant gloves :?: (0:57 into your video) doing so is a MUST :!:

Next - leaching the PGMs from CATs is not easy to start with - in the first place you will never leach all the PGMs out - in fact you will be "lucky" to leach enough to even cover the value that you could have sold the CAT to a CAT buyer (scrap yard) for

Next - if you are going to leach CATs it should be done on "whole combs" with the comb set in the leach solution on a spacer (so solution is able to get under the comb) & the veins running vertical (so the solution can flow through the comb veins from bottom to top in the reaction vessel) --- by crushing the combs you have made the leach solution less effective (unless you provide "continuous" agitation) AND it is next to impossible to wash/filter all of the solution out of the crushed comb

Next - 5 hours is not even close to enough time to leach the PGMs out --- will PGMs go into solution - yes --- but not even close to the PGMS that are in it

Next - AR is NOT the best choice for leaching CATs --- though it will leach a fair (not all) amount of the Pd it will only leach some (not much) of the Pt & none of the Rh --- chlorine (bleach &/or chlorine tablets) is a better choice as the oxidizer for leaching the PGMs from CATs then nitric &/or nitrates --- so HCl/Cl instead of AR

Next - we "do not" advise using ammonium nitrate for PM refining on this forum for reasons explained in this thread :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=22641&hilit=ammonium+nitrate --- For safety reasons we advise using potassium nitrate (avalible as a stump remover) or sodium nitrate (avalible as a fertilizer)

Next - DMG is NOT a good choice for precipitating Pd from solution --- for one thing it is expensive & it takes 2.5 grams of DMG to precipitate 1 gram of Pd (& other reasons) rather we use it to test for Pd in solution (&/or Ni) & most of the time it is used to confirm a stannous test of Pd

Next - concerning preparing your DMG --- it is not a good idea to use "any kind" of alcohol (ethanol, methanol etc.) to dissolve your DMG --- in fact alcohol's have no business in refining at all - alcohol's mixed with acidic solutions that have metals dissolved in them have the potential to create explosive compounds - explosive fulminates &/or other explosive compound

The proper way to prepare your DMG is to dissolve 4 grams of NaOH in 100 ml of hot D-water in which you then dissolve 5.81 grams of DMG

I see you are a new member - You have just found one of the best sources of information about refining PMs (if not the best) in the world - here you will meet some of the best & most knowledgeable refiners in the world & we are here to help people like you (& I point this out because I don't want you to take what I am going to say next wrong)

At the beginning of your video you say - "Do not try this at home. I am an experienced chemist & understand the danger of this experiment. This video is for educational purposes and to show my experience with making precious metal refining simpler"

Based on the mistakes I have just pointed out in your video (& I did not point them al out) I have a hard time believing your opening statement in this video --- you still have a LOT to learning (which we will be more then glad to help you with) before you go posting what amounts to both mis-information & incomplete information that is going to lead other people down a path that WILL result in them hurting them selves (&/or yourself for that matter) - so I suggest you remove this video from the internet & that you start doing some real research here on the forum - starting with reading Hokes book which is a free down load here on the forum - which you can find in the signature line of any of FrugalRefiners posts

Again - I want to point out - working with PGM salts is VERY dangerous - you should avoid working with them (period) without compete knowledge of them &/or have a true & complete working lab set up

What you should have done - is you should have cemented the PGMs from your leach with zinc so they precipitated as the metals of PGMs --- instead of precipitating them as salts

You might want to check this thread out for more info about leaching CATs :arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=20573&p=211969&hilit=leaching+CATs#p210836

I never quit finished the thread as I got busy with other things (at that time) & didn't get back to it - but there is still a lot of good info in it - the main point being it next to impossible to leach CATS & make a profit



Kurt

Kurt, I think you failed to read my warning at the beginning of the video. It is dangerous . Personally your bleach idea is bull poop i would like to see it because i have never seen that work. I know PGMs are dangerous. all i have heard from this forum is safety safety safety. If people cant figure out that refining is dangerous then they shouldnt be doing it. What in the hell is this forum for? a bunch of advocates to wine about safety? Seems accurate. In reference to your explosives between isopropyl alcohol and acid. So it may make iso propane. which is a gas that will fly away quickly. Dont tell me what i can and cant use to refine things. I am a chemist not a goldrefiningforum person that thinks they know everything about refining. there is more than one way to skin a cat. Im gonna leave this ______ forum where people dont give 2 poops about refining. Everybody on here is a flipping dreamer that doesnt know poop.

Edited by FrugalRefiner to eliminate unacceptable language, which is a violation of forum policy and won this person a permanent ban.
 
You sir, must be one of Youtubes finest chemists.
I hate when you smart people come here and teach us what we do wrong.
Be assured that none of us safety advocates will be at your funeral.

Edited by FrugalRefiner to match edited posts above.
 
You would think a super chemist like you would keep their equipment a little cleaner.

Almost anyone on this forum would know that most everything that can be done with aqua regia can also be done with HCl a and a nitrate salt, just not quite as easily. In other words, nothing in that video was new to anyone on the forum.
 
...and a super chemist would absolutely understand how bleach and hcl would certainly dissolve precious metals.

And... I dont know many chemists that directly heat glass with a flame, except for test tubes (isnt that a sterno flame?)

Definitely no chemist would be so scorned by being shown they are wrong, for it could teach him how to be right.
 
Streetips on youtube is/was a very active and knowledgeable member on this forum, if I remember right, although I can't remember his username. I'm sure someone will know. I'm just wondering if Streetips would want someone obviously producing inferior and potentially dangerous videos, like you, associated with him and his good videos. Have you cleared this with him?

If a person wants to know anything about precious metals scrap, this forum contains about 96% of the reliable information on the internet. Anything and everything has been discussed here in a quarter of a million posts. Four of us moderators have a total of about 130 years professional experience in this field. There are many 100's of people, over the last 9+ years, who have learned enough to be on a higher level than you. There are 100's, probably, who have learned enough to make a living at this.

When someone comes on here promoting things that are false, dangerous, sloppy, or inefficient, the BS alarm will go off and someone will immediately call them on it. That's what happened on this thread. Often, the people that promote these things get banned.

Only when you swallow your false pride and realize how little you know, will you actually learn something and be a valuable member of the forum. It's up to you.
 
FrugalRefiner said:
Ooops! :oops: Sorry folks, nknewberry won't be able to answer any questions. My thumb bumped into the ban button.

Dave

It's about time.

I thought I was going to have to file a formal complaint to have it done.


:roll:
 
It was supposed to be grass day for me, too. Due to rain all morning, I took the day off.

And thank you, Dave, for taking appropriate action. That guy had a higher opinion of himself than I had at my worst. Arrogance reminded me of my irresponsible youth, too. Hope he actually learns something about safety before he does damage to someone.

Time for ☕️.
 
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