Palladium recovery from Monolithic Ceramic Capacitors

[Auchem]

Hi

Does this method apply to SMD resistors? I've started gathering both capacitors and resistors but if they require different refining methods i would like to seperate them in an early stage.

Best regards

 

[solar_plasma]

Hi

Does this method apply to SMD resistors? I've started gathering both capacitors and resistors but if they require different refining methods i would like to seperate them in an early stage.

Best regards

I would like to add the question, if anybody knows, how much ruthenium there is in the resistors, since ruthenium is something, most of us don't want to deal with?

 

[bmgold2]

Hi

Does this method apply to SMD resistors? I've started gathering both capacitors and resistors but if they require different refining methods i would like to seperate them in an early stage.

Best regards

I would like to add the question, if anybody knows, how much ruthenium there is in the resistors, since ruthenium is something, most of us don't want to deal with?

Don't know but this link may help. http://www.seielect.com/products/productsearch.asp?SelFamilyID=1

Most that I looked at on that site didn't have any but at least one did. I only checked out 4 or 5 of the PDF files there. You would have to know what you had to be sure. Scrap from old circuit boards would be tough but if you had NOS parts you could probably find out pretty easy.

 

[etack]

Hi

Does this method apply to SMD resistors? I've started gathering both capacitors and resistors but if they require different refining methods i would like to seperate them in an early stage.

Best regards

Are you hand pulling resistors? If so that is a waste of time. You can buy a billion (literally 1,000,000,000) of them for next to nothing. think about that in what the returns will be. I do know the smaller ones are better than the bigger ones.

Eric

 

[solar_plasma]

Thank you bmgold, very helpful. As I understand it, there could be 2% silver and 0,3% ruthenium. Since this seems tobe quite a significant amount and ruthenium obviously can be a scaring stuff, I look critically at those resistors.

@etack
They could be a by-product when scrapping boards with hot air without being extra work, but they are also weighing next to nothing, so I easily can understand, they are not worth to process at todays and the next 20 year's prices.

 

[niteliteone]

As a follow up to Solar's post;
Thick film resistors are the only ones I found to contain Ruthenium and it it in an oxide state, the most dangerous form most of us will encounter.

This from;
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm

Health effects of ruthenium

Ruthenium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. Ruthenium oxide, RuO4, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided.

 

[bmgold2]

Here's a little more information I found on thick film resistors. This information comes from a PDF fromDigikey. I couldn't get the link to copy. I googled for "how to tell thick film from thin film resistors" and it was the first site shown.

Here are some quotes from that PDF:

General purpose thick film chip resistors (RMCF series) are the most prolific part used in electronic and electrical devices today. As a result, they are the most widely available and lowest cost of any resistor technology.

Thick film resistive elements start with a grain-containing ruthenium oxide paste which is screen printed onto a ceramic substrate.

Thick film resistors are used on literally every type of electrical device; if it has a battery or an AC plug, it will probably have a thick film resistor. For example the average PC currently contains over 1200 chip resistors, most of which are thick film chip resistors. Unless there are stability, accuracy, or noise requirements, thick film resistors will always be the preferred resistive solution in any circuit design.


What I get from this information is that most if not all of the SMD resistors I have on my boards and probably most that you will find in computers WILL contain ruthenium and should probably be left alone. A little bit of silver and even the palladium is not worth the risk.

 

[g_axelsson]

As a follow up to Solar's post;
Thick film resistors are the only ones I found to contain Ruthenium and it it in an oxide state, the most dangerous form most of us will encounter.

This from;
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm

Health effects of ruthenium

Ruthenium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. Ruthenium oxide, RuO4, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided.

The thick film resistors can't be made with RuO₄ as it is volatile, the resistor would just evaporate into thin air. The stability of the component means any Ru must be in a stable state.

Göran

 

[bmgold2]

As a follow up to Solar's post;
Thick film resistors are the only ones I found to contain Ruthenium and it it in an oxide state, the most dangerous form most of us will encounter.

This from;
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm

Health effects of ruthenium

Ruthenium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. Ruthenium oxide, RuO₄, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided.

The thick film resistors can't be made with RuO₄ as it is volatile, the resistor would just evaporate into thin air. The stability of the component means any Ru must be in a stable state.

Göran

Looking at an MSDS for Ruthenium Oxide - RuO₂ states:

Boiling Point: Decomposes

Melting Point: Decomposes

Unusual Fire and Explosion Hazards: May emit toxic fumes upon decomposition.
Irritating to skin and mucous membranes. Oxidation of ruthenium/ruthenium compounds may form the volatile,
toxic and highly irritating ruthenium (VIII) oxide - RuO₄.

Stability: Stable
Conditions to Avoid: Extreme heat
Incompatability (Material to Avoid): Oxidizers, acids, aqua regia, organic solvents.
Hazardous Decomposition Products: RuO₄
Hazardous Polymerization: Will not occur

Just how dangerous this is I DO NOT know. Perhaps normal precautions like working outdoors or fume hood processing would be enough. Do your own research and decide for yourself if you are comfortable working with these parts.

I may still collect and save these parts but I do not intend to process them without a lot more study. Probably the best thing to do would be sell them to someone who can process them safely or just move on to other sources of PM's.

 

[niteliteone]

As a follow up to Solar's post;
Thick film resistors are the only ones I found to contain Ruthenium and it it in an oxide state, the most dangerous form most of us will encounter.

This from;
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm

Health effects of ruthenium

Ruthenium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. Ruthenium oxide, RuO4, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided.

The thick film resistors can't be made with RuO₄ as it is volatile, the resistor would just evaporate into thin air. The stability of the component means any Ru must be in a stable state.

Göran

I wonder what it would take for any of our back yard refiners to convert any RuO₂ into "any" form that would be dangerous to their health, not just the one form mentioned above.
Oh wait, ALL forms are to be considered dangerous once liberated from their substrate :shock:

Sorry I will never split hairs when it comes to anybodies health :shock:

 

[solar_plasma]

Oh wait, ALL forms are to be considered dangerous once liberated from their substrate :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[bmgold2]

Oh wait, ALL forms are to be considered dangerous once liberated from their substrate :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

That's what makes this group such a great place to get your knowledge. Without this group and the people willing to correct anything they think is bad information I would have just saved up the little resistors and tried to process them to get the little bit of silver and possibly tried to save the palladium. Now, at least I know more about the dangers of doing this and will not be attempting any processing of them. I probably will still save them as whole parts just in case I get the knowledge and equipment to do it safely or find a buyer for them. I'd hate, years down the road when the price of silver skyrockets, to think I had valuable parts and dumped them in some landfill. I'd also hate to find out years from now that I got some deadly disease that was caused from extracting $20 worth of silver.

 

[solar_plasma]

If you get them anyway, I can't see anything wrong in collecting them and selling them to a larger refinery, when you once will have some kilos of them.

 

[cilek]

I was wondering if we can get to know about the level of danger we’ll be playing with (MSDS for Ruthenium Oxide - RuO2). Practically speaking I wouldn’t get into it unless I know the level of precautions to be taken exactly. I was trying to find something concrete on it but couldn’t. I guess someone’s going to have to try it before I do then. Has anyone tried working with Ruthenium dioxide before?

 

[maynman1751]

uthenium

Ruthenium, together with rhodium, palladium, osmium, iridium, and platinum form a group of elements referred to as the platinum group metals (PGM).

Ruthenium is a hard, white metal. It does not tarnish at room temperatures, but oxidises in air at about 800°C. The metal is not attacked by hot or cold acids or aqua regia, but when potassium chlorate is added to the solution, it oxidises explosively. It dissolved in molten alkalis.

Applications

Ruthenium demand is rising: the metal find use in the electronic industry (50%) and the chemical industry (40%), with smaller amounts being used in alloying. In electronics it used to be used mainly for electrical contacts but most now goes into chip resistors. In the chemical industry it is used in the anodes for chlorine production in electrochemical cells.

The metal is used as a hardener for palladium and platinum and added in small amounts improves the corrosion resistance of titaniumin. It is used in electrical contact alloys and filaments, in jewelry, in pen nibs, and in instrument pivots. It is also used in alloys with cobalt, molybdenum, nickel, tungsten, and other metals. Ruthenium compounds are used to color ceramics and glass.
Ruthenium is also a versatile catalyst, used for instance in the removal of H2S from oil refineries and from other industrial processes, for the production of ammonia from natural gas, and for the production of acetic acid from methanol.
Some ruthenium complexes absorb light throughout the visible spectrum and are being actively researched in various, potential, solar energy technologies.

Rut

Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/ru.htm#ixzz38DLt2eXt

We may have been exposed already and didn't know it!

 

[dannlee]

I nabbed some coated titanium mesh a while back and read up on catalyst coatings. Mixed Metal Oxides (MMO) have been deposited on titanium to make superior catalysts for forty-plus years, the recipes vary with ratios & mixes used: Iridium chloride for abrasion resistance or extreme longevity, chlorine catalytic actions use mostly ruthenium chloride (patented 1965), water electrolysis platinum chloride is the majority, to increase current density extra niobium is added.

The chlorine angle mentioned handles 90% of paper bleaching and PVC plastic production worldwide. Ruthenium quote today is $68.00 US ozt; Iridium $620.00 US ozt... Iridium is longer lasting w/ many processes but cost difference means smaller alloy amounts or thinner layers.

My searches for MSDS say if you get ruthenium dioxide in your eyes its as dangerous as silica, same with breathing it (duh). Other than that its avoid contact with oxidizers or hydrocarbons. The metal has a 4,233°F melting point. 7,502°F Boiling point (argon arc). On its own its nearly inert everywhere this side of the surface of the sun, just lets other processes boom when it is present.

And for you cowboy reclaimers... "Fission products of uranium-235 contain significant amounts of ruthenium and the lighter platinum group metals and therefore used nuclear fuel might be a possible source of ruthenium. The complicated extraction is expensive and the radioactive isotopes of ruthenium that are present would make storage for several half-lives of the decaying isotopes necessary. (four or six years)"

 

[solar_plasma]

While it is quite interesting to read only about those metals, they are definitely something, we have to keep our hands off. Leave it to those, who are trained on that stuff and work in a facility, that is specialized in treating it:



ruthenium
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=6638#p59284

osmium
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=19913#p202974

 

[saadat68]

Hi
I searched some but I couldn't understand that can I recovery silver and Pd from MLCCs with mix of smd resistors?
They are very small and simillar MLCCs so sorting them are very hard and not 100%

If I digest them in nitric and then AR, will all of RuO2 remain in residue ? Is It completely safe ?
how to deal with these residue ? Are they dangerous ?

From another topic without any reply:

SMD (SMT?) thick film resistors are still under consideration due the fact they do contains RuO2, I know that lye or probably ammonia could trap it but my main concern is how to safely reach it. Incineration could dangerously make RuO4 and crushing will free up the irritating RuO2 dust; proper disposal is still an unknown factor.

Thanks

 

[Palladium]

Good to see you are online considering what's going on over there.
Stay safe brother!

 

[Lou]

Ru is very safe if you avoid alkaline hypochlorite and molten caustic + oxidizing mixtures. You will have no chance of forming RuO4 even at bright red heat from Ru or RuO2.

Calcined RuO2 is quite inert to acids and likely does not report biologically in any significant quantity.