pondering a problem?

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Drowningbodacius

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
68
Location
P-town, Virginia
so i posted this question in one of my other posts but i beleive its getting skimmed over...... and thats ok, others have questions to.
so mine is this
is there a difference between Ar and AC/CL in what metals they will dissolve or is the AC/CL method just the cheap mans way of doing the AR method.
the reason i ask i i have several grams of gold fingers and about 70 grams of fiber cpu pins that have been through a hcl soak and washed so is it ok to place the pin feed in with my finger feed and then dissolve with AC/Cl or should i do them sepeeratly using AR on my pins and AC/CL on my fingers
i think i know the answers to this question already but i want to be sure as this is my first time doing this
 
If you are referring to hcl/cl as AC/CL CL being Clorox bleach
it is actually not a poor mans way but a safe mans way and has been proven
countless times by all on this form

I would do the pins separately from the fingers in case of a problem it is easier to solve

There are those on the form who will swear by the cell for metal based material
but many of us do our metal based in A/P (acid hcl/peroxide) to dissolve all the base metals
then proceed to hcl/bleach with the gold foils
You do not want your auric chloride contaminated with other base metals
witch i doubt your hcl wash is dissolving

To answer your question i have used both A/R and hcl/bleach and can tell no difference
they both put gold into solution in a mater of seconds

food for thought ...70 grams of cpu pins or any pins will barley be visible to the human eye you may want to save more

and fingers i get 1 to 3 grams per pound depending on what fingers they are

disclaimer: I know very little and am new to this get other advise
steyr223 rob 8)
 
thanks, i still have about 100 more grams of pins to process but im limited in the amount i can do in a single batch as i dont have any larger containers so its small batches at the moment. what i was going to try to do was once i dissolved the base metals from the Au foils i was just going to throw both into a tuperware container and save up till i geet a good amount of foils to process. so i was trying to figure out if this was the best route to take or not
 
Drowningbodacius,
I believe when you asked this question by the abbreviation your using of (Ar or AR ) you are referring to aqua regia.
Aqua regia, is a powerful combination of acids, the nitric oxidizes the gold so it can form a salt in solution with the hydrochloric acid (gold chloride salt), it will also form salts of most of the base metals (which you really do not base metals mixed in with your gold solution), Aqua regia will attack metals vigorously being a very powerful combination of acids, even pure gold metal that is thick would dissolve fairly quickly in this acid. this acid works well, but can be much harder for people unfamiliar with it, to learn how to use it to recover gold, removing free nitric from solution before trying to recover gold can be tricky, boil-over and loss of values are also possible, it can take a little time to learn proper methods, and how to use it properly.

AC/CL is not an abbreviation for anything but I assume your trying to ask about HCl/NaClO Hydrochloric acid and sodium hypochlorite (bleach) added to generate chlorine in solution to dissolve gold.

HCl/Bleach will generate chlorine in solution as the acid reacts with the sodium hypochlorite solution, it is this chlorine that oxidizes the gold so that it can form a gold salt dissolved in solution (AuCl3) with hydrochloric acid (HCl), this solution works fine for fine powder or foils, but would not work well to dissolve a thick piece of pure gold, it would take a longer time and large volumes of chemicals, the bleach is mostly water, and this solution is also slightly alkaline (NaOH involved), the water just dilutes the acid, making a large volume of dilute acid with little gold dissolved in solution, and the bleach also makes the HCl less acidic bringing the pH of solution towards neutral on the pH scale, but it works great when used as suggested by the forum to dissolve gold (base metals removed), as it is much easier to deal with when trying to recover the gold from solution (no nitric acid to eliminate as in aqua regia), the oxidizer chlorine is easily removed from solution with heat, or left in sun for a period of time.


HCl/32% H2O2 will also dissolve gold and some of the platinum group metals (PGM's), as does aqua regia and the HCl/NaClO does, this also generates chlorine in solution as the peroxide oxidizes the HCl acid, the chlorine generated oxidizes the gold, this solution does form a more dilute solution but with heat the excess water is evaporated (concentrating the solution and remaining acid), it also does not change the pH as the bleach does, and it will not form salts when water is driven off like the HCL/NaClO will do if heated to evaporate.

I feel each of these methods have their advantages and disadvantages; I also like to use different ones of these methods on different types of materials, trying to use their advantage to my advantage.
 
We tend to be a little stickly on the casual use of abbreviations and terminology around here---for one thing, the chemicals are to be respected. And experience has shown that newbies who are sloppy or overly casual with the terminology tend to be sloppy with the procedures. Then they come back complaining that the procedure they misunderstood and misapplied produced strange results. It's only happened a hundred times in the year I've been here. Easily, 10% of all posts on the forum contain the admonition "read and study Hoke". Plus, we have all been trained by Harold not to accept sloppy language; and that is a good thing.
 
butcher said:
Drowningbodacius,
I believe when you asked this question by the abbreviation your using of (Ar or AR ) you are referring to aqua regia.
Aqua regia, is a powerful combination of acids, the nitric oxidizes the gold so it can form a salt in solution with the hydrochloric acid (gold chloride salt), it will also form salts of most of the base metals (which you really do not base metals mixed in with your gold solution), Aqua regia will attack metals vigorously being a very powerful combination of acids, even pure gold metal that is thick would dissolve fairly quickly in this acid. this acid works well, but can be much harder for people unfamiliar with it, to learn how to use it to recover gold, removing free nitric from solution before trying to recover gold can be tricky, boil-over and loss of values are also possible, it can take a little time to learn proper methods, and how to use it properly.

AC/CL is not an abbreviation for anything but I assume your trying to ask about HCl/NaClO Hydrochloric acid and sodium hypochlorite (bleach) added to generate chlorine in solution to dissolve gold.

HCl/Bleach will generate chlorine in solution as the acid reacts with the sodium hypochlorite solution, it is this chlorine that oxidizes the gold so that it can form a gold salt dissolved in solution (AuCl3) with hydrochloric acid (HCl), this solution works fine for fine powder or foils, but would not work well to dissolve a thick piece of pure gold, it would take a longer time and large volumes of chemicals, the bleach is mostly water, and this solution is also slightly alkaline (NaOH involved), the water just dilutes the acid, making a large volume of dilute acid with little gold dissolved in solution, and the bleach also makes the HCl less acidic bringing the pH of solution towards neutral on the pH scale, but it works great when used as suggested by the forum to dissolve gold (base metals removed), as it is much easier to deal with when trying to recover the gold from solution (no nitric acid to eliminate as in aqua regia), the oxidizer chlorine is easily removed from solution with heat, or left in sun for a period of time.


HCl/32% H2O2 will also dissolve gold and some of the platinum group metals (PGM's), as does aqua regia and the HCl/NaClO does, this also generates chlorine in solution as the peroxide oxidizes the HCl acid, the chlorine generated oxidizes the gold, this solution does form a more dilute solution but with heat the excess water is evaporated (concentrating the solution and remaining acid), it also does not change the pH as the bleach does, and it will not form salts when water is driven off like the HCL/NaClO will do if heated to evaporate.

I feel each of these methods have their advantages and disadvantages; I also like to use different ones of these methods on different types of materials, trying to use their advantage to my advantage.

Great post Butcher! You descriptions/explanations of the processes are easy for me to read and understand.
 
Thanks,
You can also thank Harold he has been a major reason I write a little better now, When I first came to the forum my writing skills were terrible, Harold said he could not read it, that hurt so bad I tried to do better.
 
butcher said:
Thanks,
You can also thank Harold he has been a major reason I write a little better now, When I first came to the forum my writing skills were terrible, Harold said he could not read it, that hurt so bad I tried to do better.
You not only tried, you succeeded. I'm damned proud of you and the contributions you make. So much so that I now relax and leave it in far better hands than my own.

Readers are very fortunate to have the likes of Butcher on this board.

Harold
 
steyr223,
Yes you said it, I just thought I could maybe expand a little on a couple of points you made, or on what you said, sometimes when we do that it gives a member a little different view of the same subject.

Keep up the good work, I didn't say it better, just different.




Harold, thank you,
We know you have many irons in the fire, but we sure do miss your poking your iron it the fire's around here.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top