do not try 50:50. Excess of HNO3 will re-dissolve your gold as soon as it precipitates resulting in gold loss.
Poor Man's Aqua Regia
- Thread starter Akragon
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too late... its in the process
We do not use Urea, that is a fertilizer.
Better use Sulfamic acid!
He is using Bleach not Nitric.
You will not loose Gold unless you throw it away, it will complicate things if you use 50/50 HCl Nitric though.
Ugh... the "unknown" is copper FFS...LOL
had enough of "unknown" so i melted the rest of it... now i need a new crucible
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cejohnsonsr1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2020
- Messages
- 282
Urea has nothing to do with gold refining. Sulphamic acid is what is used to denox the solution. Even that isn’t necessary as SMB will eventually cause the excess nitric to be consumed. Neither of those is the best method. The best method is to use incremental dosing and avoid any excess nitric.
I have to disagree with one thing. Urea. I like many used to use urea. But according to the forum this should not be used. I'm not really sure why. I think I remember reading why I just can't properly articulate the reason but I'm sure someone on the forum that's much more experienced then me could explain better.
Under certain circumstances it can form explosive compounds.
Urea neutralizes the NOx in AR not the nitric. Sulphamic works on the actual nitric acid. If using urea, dropping the gold and removing it from the AR needs to be done fairly quick or risk some gold going back into solution. Under the right circumstances it could be possible for all the gold to go back into solution.
wisco_gold
Well-known member
If the original poster isn't going to take a single shred of advice why keep giving it to them?
They literally ask how to do something, are told and then do exactly what they were advised not to do?
The proverbial dead horse and a stick.
Furthermore, while the op isn't taking the advice given; senior members of the forum would do well to stop telling people to search the forum. If you do not want to help , then by all means save your energy for other things. But telling people to use the search function time and time again just fills this site up with a bunch of posts without much in the way of knowledge so when one does use the search function they have to try to sort through countless threads of people getting told to use the search function instead of the information they were searching for. If you don't believe me, search a commonly asked question and read the results you get.
They literally ask how to do something, are told and then do exactly what they were advised not to do?
The proverbial dead horse and a stick.
Furthermore, while the op isn't taking the advice given; senior members of the forum would do well to stop telling people to search the forum. If you do not want to help , then by all means save your energy for other things. But telling people to use the search function time and time again just fills this site up with a bunch of posts without much in the way of knowledge so when one does use the search function they have to try to sort through countless threads of people getting told to use the search function instead of the information they were searching for. If you don't believe me, search a commonly asked question and read the results you get.
If they learn to do that there will be less work for us.
It is GRF version on the story about giving someone a fish or learning them to fish story.
Posts should be aimed at future members as well as the OP. If the OP isn’t willing to follow given advice maybe those that come by later will. I very seldom use the search function. I did, and still do, tend to read everything, like a book. Yes, it took longer to pick up the knowledge but it did stick in my head better.
Me too, but at times one need to.
And the info is there, but it takes too much of my time to sift out the nuggets for everyone that ask, give me this or tell me that.
For my own purposes its a different story.
I think I have read most if not all of the forum, remembering it is different story
Sometimes when I read an old thread I have read many times,
I discover new things or even have revelations of new knowledge.
It was there the last time I read it, but my focus or needs have changed and the eyes have a different focus, or something like that.
I don't recall asking how to do anything...i simply posted my experiment. IF that isin't allowed then i will refrain from doing so in the future... it does add to the site content, does it not? I did say i didn't find anything on HCL and bleach... and in any case the "experiment" was a total failure. I do take advice from members here... and learn from it as well. And IF this post helps others not make the mistakes i have then i don't see an issue.
Said "experiment" was already done... the advice was noted... but to late to change... and i don't believe i will be trying this again anyways.... again, i do take advice and learn from others that post said advice.
Golddigger76
Well-known member
Hydrochloric/bleach is not my normal process to refine gold but if I am out of nitric acid or have only few grams of foils it's a very affective method.
When using hydrochloric acid and bleach, here's a few things that has worked very good for me.
With 50ml to 100 ml of hydrochloric I will only use maybe a bleach bottle cap or less of bleach. I always use heat, as in just lightly boiling.
After lightly boiling for 10 minutes if there are still foils that did not dissolved then I will add a few drops up to a quarter cap of bleach at a time, watch it for a few minutes and repeat until the gold has gone into solution. This is a very simple process to use but you need a fume hood or to be outside with the wind blowing the fumes away from you, do not breathe the chlorine and acid fumes, you should not be able to smell it and if you do you need to quickly get yourself to fresh air.
It helps to keep the heat going for another half hour to drive off any remaining chlorine IF you have not added to much bleach if so you need to keep the heat on for longer. Just don't over use bleach and it will not be a problem.
Precipitating gold is done with SMB
the way you would do with aqua regia, let it settle over night, decant and wash the gold powder with water. I always re-dissolve the power a second time, same process and normally will boil the in hydrochloric acid with water 50/50 to help remove any base metals.
If I have gold thicker than foils I just use aqua regia, it might work but I have never heard of anyone who dissolved something like a gold ring in hydrochloric and bleach and have never tried.
When using hydrochloric acid and bleach, here's a few things that has worked very good for me.
With 50ml to 100 ml of hydrochloric I will only use maybe a bleach bottle cap or less of bleach. I always use heat, as in just lightly boiling.
After lightly boiling for 10 minutes if there are still foils that did not dissolved then I will add a few drops up to a quarter cap of bleach at a time, watch it for a few minutes and repeat until the gold has gone into solution. This is a very simple process to use but you need a fume hood or to be outside with the wind blowing the fumes away from you, do not breathe the chlorine and acid fumes, you should not be able to smell it and if you do you need to quickly get yourself to fresh air.
It helps to keep the heat going for another half hour to drive off any remaining chlorine IF you have not added to much bleach if so you need to keep the heat on for longer. Just don't over use bleach and it will not be a problem.
Precipitating gold is done with SMB
the way you would do with aqua regia, let it settle over night, decant and wash the gold powder with water. I always re-dissolve the power a second time, same process and normally will boil the in hydrochloric acid with water 50/50 to help remove any base metals.
If I have gold thicker than foils I just use aqua regia, it might work but I have never heard of anyone who dissolved something like a gold ring in hydrochloric and bleach and have never tried.
iambulldogs
New member
Im one of those "youtube students" you old heads talk about, i was really hoping yall would listen to a green pea for a moment:
We understand that you are older, wiser, and more experienced than us but you guys must also suffer from CRS because yall clearly forgot your manners. Your posts are so rude sometimes. Yes it is true i dont have a degree, so what? As far as i can tell where you learn something has no bearing on whether or not you learned it (dont have to have a degree to have the knowledge.) Ive been bit by the same bug that bit you old heads (hence why i am here!) But ive run into this phenomenon in a few different places where the old or long timers act like they are gods gift to the hobby. Gentlemen, please, take us under your wings. Wont you embrace the passing on of this trade from your generation to mine?
Respectfully Yours,
rerefining grasshopper
We understand that you are older, wiser, and more experienced than us but you guys must also suffer from CRS because yall clearly forgot your manners. Your posts are so rude sometimes. Yes it is true i dont have a degree, so what? As far as i can tell where you learn something has no bearing on whether or not you learned it (dont have to have a degree to have the knowledge.) Ive been bit by the same bug that bit you old heads (hence why i am here!) But ive run into this phenomenon in a few different places where the old or long timers act like they are gods gift to the hobby. Gentlemen, please, take us under your wings. Wont you embrace the passing on of this trade from your generation to mine?
Respectfully Yours,
rerefining grasshopper
Welcome to us.
We old guys get a bit tired of answering the same question one thousand and some times when the answer are in plain sight in the forum.
And youtube is a dangerous place for this kind of hobby.
We have been compiling a list of "approved" videos lately.
It is in the library.
We do not care about degrees in here, just you willingness to study and listening to advice.
And if you do something stupid you will be corrected.
We do not pamper bruised feelings.
Chemistry do its thing, always, as it follows the laws of nature.
Nothing we can do about that.
Here are some materials for your studies:
We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/
Suggested reading:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/the-library.101/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...le-read-this-before-you-post-about-ore.33333/
Forum rules is here.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/
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