poor mans aqua regia

[Gold Lady]

Is there one online now to give me the exact formula for the poor mans aqua regia.
Joyce

 

[glorycloud]

Most of the formulas can be found in the very first forum: DATA

2.AR Recipie 2= Poor Man's AR = 8 oz Sodium Nitrate (aka Subzero), 480 ml water, 960 ml Muriatic Acid plus heat. Used to dissolve high karat gold, gold powder, gold foils, dissolves Platinum when hot. Excess nitric must be evaporated off neutralized with Urea to pH 1 +/- 0.4, then drop gold with SMB.

◦The above mentioned recipie makes enough AR to dissolve 160 gm Pins or 32 oz of ceramic cpus.

Please be careful with all processes and chemicals!!! Read the SAFETY section please!! 8)

 

[butcher]

gold lady don't forget to get rid of the base metals first.

 

[Irons]

Add the Sodium Nitrate in increments, not all at once.

If you get Sodium Nitrate prills, it's better to dissolve them in a little hot water first. They have a polymer anti-caking coating that makes them dissolve very slowly.

The other day, I dissolved .22 oz of low carat Gold in poor man's AR a couple of 24/40 erlenmyer flasks connected with silicone tubing. One was the digestor, the other had a frit bubbler in a solution of Sodium Carbonate and Hydrogen Peroxide as a NOx scrubber. It converted the NOx to Sodium Nitrate. Most of the NOx reacted at the frit. The few bubbles that reached the surface reacted with the Oxygen given off by the Hydrogen Peroxide, turning Red than disappearing as the NOx was converted to Nitric Acid and absorbed by the solution.

There were almost no fumes emitted.

 

[glorycloud]

Any chance you could post a picture of what that set up looks like Irons? 8)

 

[Irons]

Any chance you could post a picture of what that set up looks like Irons? 8)

I knew someone would ask. I guess I'll have to get out my camera tomorrow. 8)

 

[glorycloud]

LOL!!

Muchas gracias amigo!!! 8)

 

[butcher]

sodium carbonate good choice, for sodium, and carbonate for its insolubility? and peroxide to convert back NO2 gas. thats a smart idea, are you monitoring temperature, keeping it low enough so chlorine does not come over?
what do you call a frit?

 

[Anonymous]

frit, looks like a aquarium stone.

 

[Gold Lady]

Thank all of you good guys for your information.
Gold Lady

 

[Irons]

sodium carbonate good choice, for sodium, and carbonate for its insolubility? and peroxide to convert back NO2 gas. thats a smart idea, are you monitoring temperature, keeping it low enough so chlorine does not come over?
what do you call a frit?

Sodium Carbonate because it's quite soluble(220g/l @20deg C.), inexpensive and available in the grocery store as Washing Soda. It reacts with the Nitric Acid to produce Sodium Nitrate and Carbon Dioxide. The Hydrogen peroxide reacts with the NOx to produce Nitric Acid.

Keeping it cool is no problem this time of year. Even if there is a little contamination from Chlorine, the resulting Sodium Nitrate is still usable for making Poor Man's AR.

It's better than breathing NOx and Chlorine.

A frit is just a fancy, expensive and chemical resistant aquarium stone.

I would prefer using Potassium Carbonate to get Potassium Nitrate but the Carbonate is more expensive than the Nitrate. If you burn wood, the ashes can be leached to get Potassium Carbonate.

 

[Irons]

Any chance you could post a picture of what that set up looks like Irons? 8)

 

[gorfman6154]

I knew someone would ask. I guess I'll have to get out my camera tomorrow. 8)

Irons, that is a thing of beauty 8) . Great photograph!!

If you wouldn't mind, could you post the quantity and ratio of Sodium Carbonate to Hydrogen Peroxide, and the ratio of poor man's Aqua Regia to the amount of scrubber that you used.

Also any other tips or pointers on using this for a first time, would be greatly appreciated.

You're awesome, Irons.

Thanks, Gorfman

 

[butcher]

I have been looking into potash potassium carbonate K2CO3 from wood ash leach, trying to understand the chemistry involved, in the leaching process, Having used it for many things I never understood its chemistry, the other chemical combinations also in wood ash, and how it reacted with other substances,

like calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2 slaked lime mixed with Potassium carbonate K2CO3 from wood ash leach to get potassium hydroxide in solution, calcium carbonate CaCO3 precipitant and caustic potash potassium hydroxide KOH in solution
K2CO3 + Ca(OH)2 --> CaCO3 (s) + 2KOH (aq)

and also trying the chemistry involved it compost of animal dung and urea potato leaves etc.. to obtain calcium nitrate CaNO3 and using KOH potassium hydroxide from above reaction to get products of calcium hydroxide CaOH and potassium nitrate KNO3
CaNO3 + KOH --> CaOH (s) + KNO3 (aq)

this was for a project I would like to post on if I can get all this confusing chemistry straight in my scrambled brain,

project I will call caveman or backwoods gold refining

hopefully to include making sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, potasium nitrate, and other chemicals we use in recovery of these metals. from things we have here in the backwoods.

Irons could probably write this in one afternoon, but I would not get the understanding unless I do the research, and get all these confusing chemicals and equations straight in my head,

this I started after a challenge from Manuel in mexico to come up with a formula, this may take me awhile as I confuse easily when I begin learning something but when I do understand it the light comes on,

I was getting some of these chimicals mixed up in my head when I asked Irons if he chose sodium carbonate for its solubility , as I did not look up its solubility (as I should have before asking that), I did remember soda ash Na2CO3 has a wide range of solubility depending on temperature, I can't find the data again but from memory something like 20 times more soluble Hot than cold, were table salt NaCL solubility does not change very much at all with temperature.

pottasium would definitatly be the thing to use, making your byproduct more useful, dont you burn wood for heat Irons?

 

[Irons]

I knew someone would ask. I guess I'll have to get out my camera tomorrow. 8)

Irons, that is a thing of beauty 8) . Great photograph!!

If you wouldn't mind, could you post the quantity and ratio of Sodium Carbonate to Hydrogen Peroxide, and the ratio of poor man's Aqua Regia to the amount of scrubber that you used.

Also any other tips or pointers on using this for a first time, would be greatly appreciated.

You're awesome, Irons.

Thanks, Gorfman

My wife doesn't think so. but then, she knows me better. :mrgreen:

calculate how many equivalents of Nitrate you have in your reactor and use an equal amount of H2O2 in the scrubber
You should not see any red fumes in your reactor. NO is clear. When it reacts with the Hydrogen peroxide, it forms red NO2 and the peroxide gives off an Oxygen atom. The Red NO2 is absorbed by the water, the reaction producing Nitric Acid (clear). If you see bubbles coming off of the frit, rising to the surface, either your frit has too small surface area, or your reaction is going too fast. When the bubbles pop, they react with Oxygen given off by the scrubber solution, turn red and then slowly turn clear.
The output of the scrubber to the bottom of a container filled with crushed Marble (Calcium Carbonate). I use WallyWorld play sand which is a Marble grit. It only costs a few dollars a 50lb bag.

If everything is working perfectly, the output of the scrubber should be Carbon Dioxide and a little Oxygen.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Richard,

The solubilities of anhydrous sodium carbonate in water is 71 g/l at 32F and 455 g/l at 212F. Some of the other forms of sodium carbonate have different solubility ranges.

Get a copy of Lange's Handbook of Chemistry
http://www.filestube.com/f4a41010ba0441b403e9,g/lange-s-handbook-of-chemistry.html

and/or the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics
http://fileshunt.com/rapidshare.php?file=crc+handbook+chemistry+physics+89+th+edition

I got the above data from the 52nd edition of the CRC Handbook (I bought it for $1), which I use daily. I see them a lot in used book stores. For most purposes, an old one is as good as a new one. The old ones were smaller but much thicker. I think they went to the larger format sometime in the 1960s. The smaller ones had more stuff in them. I especially liked the section on Laboratory Recipes, which doesn't exist in the larger format.

 

[Irons]

Richard,

The solubilities of anhydrous sodium carbonate in water is 71 g/l at 32F and 455 g/l at 212F. Some of the other forms of sodium carbonate have different solubility ranges.

Get a copy of Lange's Handbook of Chemistry
http://www.filestube.com/f4a41010ba0441b403e9,g/lange-s-handbook-of-chemistry.html

and/or the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics
http://fileshunt.com/rapidshare.php?file=crc+handbook+chemistry+physics+89+th+edition

I got the above data from the 52nd edition of the CRC Handbook (I bought it for $1), which I use daily. I see them a lot in used book stores. For most purposes, an old one is as good as a new one. The old ones were smaller but much thicker. I think they went to the larger format sometime in the 1960s. The smaller ones had more stuff in them. I especially liked the section on Laboratory Recipes, which doesn't exist in the larger format.

I have a couple from 1919. They're much handier. I used Wiki for my value. A saturated solution at whatever temperature works. You can use less if you choose.

 

[Irons]

dont you burn wood for heat Irons?

Not yet, but I have a stove. I just need to pick it up.

We have a grove of Ash trees on the property. They produce quite a bit of ash, thus the name. They tend to shed branches, so I have several piles ready and waiting to be burned.

An interesting trait that I noticed about Ash, at least the variety we have, is that they are very late in leafing out in the Spring and one of the first to drop leaves in the Fall, thus my garden doesn't get shade until the soil has warmed and in the Fall, we get much needed sunshine when the weather gets cold.

 

[butcher]

there is nothing like a wood stove for heat, you get warm twice, warmth and exercize getting the wood, it is great for arthritis, and soo nice to come in from the cold and get warmth down to them ole bones, with a glass window being able to see the fire is also soothing, and it helps to keep my woods cleaned up and the forest fire danger down, and can heat my coffee on it. I grew up on wood so there is also warm memory's there, and even the ash has useful property, what else could I ask for in heating my home? what else can be more natural?

 

[goldnugget77]

In the first flask with the lever you place your
.22 oz of low carat Gold
Sodium Nitrate
water
HCL

In the other flask you place Sodium Carbonate and Hydrogen peroxide

I would like to know if this is correct
If it is than I would like to how much quantity of Sodium Nitrate,
water, HCLis needed