Poor man's AR

[nmlfreitas]

Hello guys
I've made my first experience this weekend. 800 grams of ceramic processors added water, HCL and Sodium Nitrate, let it boil and Brown and yellow gases came out. the reaction stopped and the processors pins and gold plated turned clear. Removed the solution to other jar with ice. and let it rest. The solution has turned dark green and test with stanous didn't come up any color. I've made everything acording with samuel-a video with poor man's ar, and followed steve's guide.
Where did i went wrong?
What should i do?

Thanks

 

[maynman1751]

My guess would be that all the base metals did not dissolve in the first run and your gold cemented back out on the base metals. You could run your material back through another AR process, but I would wait to see what others may tell you.

 

[samuel-a]

Hi nmlfreitas

the reaction stopped and the processors pins and gold plated turned clear

What does that mean exactly?

Share some more details with us, such as:
how much HCl used?
how much nitrate was added?
did you remove any metalic lids beforehand?

There are many possible sources to your problem, tell us exactly what you did and we may be able to help you.
Also, share with us your safety arrangments (hope you made some).

 

[nmlfreitas]

i think i may have done it bad because i was inspecting the broken cpu's and they still have the golden pins some are white but a few.
The golden top lids i don't have any of them. i guess they are dissolved on the solution.(?)
I think i didn't let the reaction finish.
some photos

 

[nmlfreitas]

Hello Samuel

What does that mean exactly?

Share some more details with us, such as:
how much HCl used?
how much nitrate was added?
did you remove any metalic lids beforehand?

Sam if you notice on the left side of the picture with the processors some of then a few are like white

I have used HCL until the processors were covered with.

I used 3 tea spoons of sodium nitrate and safety gloves and googles

Here it goes another photo

 

[samuel-a]

nmlfreitas

I now have every reason to beleive you did not run the reaction to completion.
Though, you being new to this, i would also question your testing abilities, you must keep that in mind, no one becomes familiar with SnCl2 testing over night.
So, to stay on the safe side, filter the questionable solution (as it probably have AgCl solids in it, keep the filter and AgCl) and add a tea spoon of SMB and let it sit for few days, IF traces of gold had been dissolved, they will sit on the bottom as bearly seen layer.

In the mean while, run your batch with AR again and this time allow it to react until all metals are dissolved.
HCl can be used excessively (limited only by your waste disposal abilities and beaker size), but add the nitrate slowly and allow each addition to react completely before the next one.

 

[nmlfreitas]

Thank you once again Samuel.
I forgot to tell you that there were a few bubles coming up when i put the solution into other jar with ice.I think i didn't wait enought because from the adding of sodium nitrate until i put it into another jar it was 1 hour and 30 minutes, maybe not enought time.
Maybe a stupid move, but i'm ready to learn with mistakes. I also guess that the solution didn't react until it was over.
So i will run the same processors again tomorrow and see how it goes. This time more carefull.I will add sodium nitrate more carefully, but how can i be sure that
the reaction is over, i mean once you add the last spoon of sodium, and it stops bubling, should the processor pins be without the golden color?

in the meanwhile i will do as you told me, filter the "half way" solution
and add smb all let it rest. if there is gold on it, it will drop, if not there is no reason to run the solution into AR again is it?

Thanks Samuel

 

[martyn111]

should the processor pins be without the golden color?

There shouldn't be any pins to have the golden colour, if there are any pins left the values will cement out onto the metal pins, therefore you will have no values in solution, you must dissolve all metals to get the values into solution.

 

[nmlfreitas]

Update - I have filtered the half way solution.
here it goes one picture of the filtered action, i really don't know what it is....

 

[pgm]

keep that done bin anything....

can you take a picture of the liquid and did you test the liquid for gold

if you tested show a picture of this too..

take a picture from a few angles and have a torch at the bottom....need a picture of the liquid from the bottom...put the beaker in higher position...look at some of my pictures and you will understand

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=8401

i really like the fact you have taken pictures. A picture can explain quite a bit..

 

[nmlfreitas]

The Stanous test came up with white colour, i supose its a mash made of "garbage"´.
Can it be?

 

[nmlfreitas]

Hello guys
Here it goes some pictures of second try.
I have most of the processor pins on the bottom they are out of the processors.
what do you think, looking good?? Should i have pins on the solution or should they all be dissolved?

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Read Hoke,

If that is AR, then all metal should be dissolved, if not something is not correct. It could be something in the water, it could be that whatever you put into solution wasn't what you thought or the correct strength or the correct ratios.

What I'm really concerned about is the fact that you are not using something under your beaker to catch anything that might spill over. Also your beaker could fail for any number of reasons even if it is the proper beaker. If the consumption of metal by AR causes bubbling and your AR spills over onto the top of your heating pad it could be very very bad indeed, specially if it's made out of Al.

If you stop what you are doing, and read Hoke, you will at the very least know exactly what to expect, and if a reaction goes wrong, you will know where it failed.

 

[nmlfreitas]

Read Hoke,

I've read Hoke two times i know what should be expected, the components that i used are correct both HCL and Sodium Nitrate, what you must understand is that i read a lot of things but as you know reading is one thing and doing it it's another, questions will allways come. As for the beaker i will fix that, you are right.

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Read Hoke,

I've read Hoke two times i know what should be expected, the components that i used are correct both HCL and Sodium Nitrate, what you must understand is that i read a lot of things but as you know reading is one thing and doing it it's another, questions will allways come. As for the beaker i will fix that, you are right.

I shouldn't have assumed you didn't read Hoke. Sorry about that.

You are right, you read Hoke so you should know what to expect, but that there will still be questions. I have tons of questions, lol...

 

[nmlfreitas]

Hi guys.
So this time i waited until there were no metals left to process i removed the processors out of the solution and added ice into other jar.
I ended up with this solution, it seens to me that silver choloride is starting to form on the bottom.
What do you guys think this looks like?

 

[philddreamer]

Did you add some sulphuric? This will make the lead, if any present, also precipitate at this point.

Take care!

Phil

 

[pgm]

I like these pictures but you are very lucky....i have broken many beakers.....please please put a buffer in between the hotplat...

best thing to use is a foil with sand and then you need to make sure the hot plate sits inside a ceramic or plastic container just in case...

the foil is what you use for pie making add some clean sand and put the beaker on it this will limit the thermal shock.

sorry i can not help with this process as i only use HCL + HNO3 to process

keep testing and post pictures of the results....of the test and i think you need a bigger beaker...or else it will over flow

 

[nmlfreitas]

Did you add some sulphuric?

Yes i added some sulphuric

I like these pictures but you are very lucky....i have broken many beakers.....please please put a buffer in between the hotplat...

best thing to use is a foil with sand and then you need to make sure the hot plate sits inside a ceramic or plastic container just in case...

Thank you for your advice i will take care of it.

 

[samuel-a]

Looking good.

Follow the rest of the steps:
- test with SnCl2
- filter while cold or dilute
- precipitate gold
- clean it
- melt it
- show off your button in the gallery section