Charles Connor said:
I had this same situation with other topic of getting the silver out of silver nitrate, when i wrote that adding NaCl to it and then melting the AgCl would be an easiest way, everybody was like *... no that way is dangerous, do not suggest if you dont know the cons or the dangerour part, read HOKE`s book...* its one way that even CM HOKE mentioned on her book, so whats the point of sharing in the forum... im not making anybody change its methods of gold or silver recovery , it`s information based on what i have done or experienced, also i dont know how you people thought the tone im writing was, since writing has no tone unless its expressed to make it seem like one...
Since you posted here, and not in the other thread, I am going to try to answer you here.
You stated:
Charles Connor said:
It is much better to precipitate the gold with SMB to get it without impurities, from what i know, the copper is used to cement the silver out of solution, but it is much better with NaCl...
If you have learned about the reactivity series, you would also know that all values below copper will cement on copper.
It also sounds as if you are suggesting that silver would be in an AR solution in the form of silver nitrate, which is not true. It would be in the form of insoluble silver chloride. You were corrected directly after. It wasn't a big deal, if you read the correction you might understand where your statement is wrong. Copper is not only used to cement silver, but can also be used to cement all values on the reactivity series below copper.
You also stated it is much better to use SMB. That might be true in some situations, but also might be true that copper is better. If you are washing, incinerating and then digesting all base metals in HNO3 after cementing with copper, then it might be better, specially considering that if you are precipitating out of a dirty solution you are going to have drag down anyway.
You then stated:
Charles Connor said:
The NaCl is the cheaper way to get the silver, also the purity will be the same if it is nitrate or chloride, as a chloride just by melting it you get your silver, it is not a difficult process, also to waste gas and oxigen to melt this silver, it is better to have a big ammount to be worth
This is confusing, lets clarify it a bit. If you have a solution of silver nitrate and you add NaCl you produce AgCl, which needs further processing. What you are saying is that the method will produce silver of the same purity as cementing on copper, and is cheaper. I would beg to differ with you on this point. If you have a choice of precipitating silver as silver metal directly out of solution by cementing on copper, or precipitating silver chloride which takes more steps to turn into elemental form, and then needing to refine both because they are not of high purity then it would seem cementing on copper would be less expensive. Not only that, but you stated "as a chloride just by melting it you get your silver", this is not true. You don't just melt the silver, you have to reduce the silver chloride to it's metallic form. The better ways do not produce gases that could be dangerous. If you are reducing by the method C. M. Hoke suggests, then you are using a specifically formulated flux to reduce silver chloride to silver metal. According to Hoke you should use a graphite crucible which is not cheap, you cannot fill more than half full, you have to heat it carefully so you don't have a boil over, you have to do this in a gas furnace, then you have to add more chloride/flux mixture, etc etc etc. If you want to know more you can re-read Hoke. But this process is not nearly as safe, it takes equipment that is much more expensive, you are expending more energy, plus you have to be well experienced in pyrometallurgical processes in order to do this successfully. You should not, not ever, directly melt silver chloride or attempt to do so. You were corrected, and rightfully so. Hoke never stated anything about directly melting silver chloride to silver metal, but rather reducing it via a pyrometallurgical process with a correctly formulated flux and process.
You went further to state:
Charles Connor said:
I have already done this process before, the silver does not comes pure after all this process is done, if refered to the harmful part is the chlorine gas...
If you did use this process I would like to know exactly how you did so. You seem to think it's easier to use this process than to cement directly on copper, or use another more commonly used process to reduce AgCl to Ag.
Then you stated:
Charles Connor said:
Im not giving any instructions, what im saying is how i get the silver out of solution based on the question above, im not telling anybody here how to refine, im giving my point of view about these cases... The forum is to share knowlege and experiences when refining gold and other metals, again it is a MUST for the reader to look for the pros and cons and not jumping into the solution and do it... my mistake if i did not wrote the dangerous part of it, but the melting must be done under a good fume...
You incorrectly stated what Hoke wrote, which caused people to feel it necessary to correct you, and rightfully so. Although you are not telling anyone how to refine, you are incorrectly oversimplifying a process that is not commonly used, and is not in fact easy at all.
All of us have posted information that needed correction or constructive criticism. I myself have been corrected and criticized in threads, specially when I feel passionate about something and have carried my point a too far. As a matter of fact in a very recent post, I had stated volts when I meant amps, and needed to correct it. If I am keeping with the professional flavor of this forum, I have to accept when I am wrong or carried things too far, then correct and conduct myself accordingly. It seems to me that this forum was created for people who can behave as adults who can take and give advice and criticism on the subject of precious metals while keeping a professional attitude. If we cannot, the forum will simply degrade into a medley of incorrect and misleading information. This very well could lead someone to make a serious mistake, harming themselves or others in the process, or worse.
Your own post is a good example of the exact reason why your information should be shared. You stated that Hoke suggests your method, and now that information would seem to have been corrected. Have you considered how many people will read your post, and learn from it?
Even when we are wrong it allows an opportunity to be corrected, and in doing so propagates good information that is correct and usable.
Also, reduction of AgCl via a pyrometallurgical process is not nearly as safe as other methods outlined on this forum. Although what Hoke states can be done, it is not the best, most modern way to process AgCl.
Scott