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Scott,
I was not suggesting that it was not dangerous,however there are processes that have less danger than others.
ie. stripping with H2O seems a bit less dangerous than boiling sulphuric acid.

perhaps, IF YOU ARE NEW HERE,read the safety section,read hoke,before you start or continue,
USE THE SEARCH to see if there is a more up to date process.if then you need help, ask.
 
JHS said:
Scott,
I was not suggesting that it was not dangerous,however there are processes that have less danger than others.
ie. stripping with H2O seems a bit less dangerous than boiling sulphuric acid.

perhaps, IF YOU ARE NEW HERE,read the safety section,read hoke,before you start or continue,
USE THE SEARCH to see if there is a more up to date process.if then you need help, ask.
Click to expand...

If you use the search function, and simply use for search terms what you have stated above, you will find hundreds of examples of exactly what you have stated.

It's not that it hasn't been said over and over, it's that many people just simply do not bother to look.

Scott
 
it's that many people just simply do not bother to look.

is it possible that they do not look,because they do not understand how the forum works?
would it not be better to tell them up front.
if we tell them that hoke is the bible of refining,then if they read it and then are not instructed to then use the search,they may go ahead,thinking they know what they should because of the simple advice they were given.
i am only saying give complete advice.
read,search,then ask, before you start or continue
john
 
JHS said:
it's that many people just simply do not bother to look.

is it possible that they do not look,because they do not understand how the forum works?
would it not be better to tell them up front.
if we tell them that hoke is the bible of refining,then if they read it and then are not instructed to then use the search,they may go ahead,thinking they know what they should because of the simple advice they were given.
i am only saying give complete advice.
read,search,then ask, before you start or continue
john
Click to expand...

Go here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/index.php

Then here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=70

And here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=4646

And finally here:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

If you look on the index page, at the bottom, you will see this message:
In total there are 22 users online :: 6 registered, 2 hidden and 14 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Click to expand...

How many of those people are new, and how many of those people have experience enough to hold their hand and teach them how this forum works? Further more, how many of those people have experience enough to teach all those people who are new, what they need to know in order to be successful in what they intend to accomplish by being here?

There seems to be a sense of entitlement with some people, as if those that come before them hold the responsibility to educate them in all that interests them, instead of taking responsibility for their own education.

I believe that a lot of time, effort and energy has been spent on attempting to guide and help new people. I cannot even imagine how frustrating it must be for those people, to see posted over and over again what should be done to help new people when that information not only exists, but is so easy to access.

Scott
 
Scott,
i have a very specific question about a very specific problem with a process that i have preformed sucessfully countless times.
i am very sure there is someone on the forum that could give me a very simple yes or no,but because of the entitlement attitude i will never ask.i have searched posts for two months with no good results.i will just let the beaker sit until i can find the answer myself or die trying.
john
 
Scott,
i have a very specific question about a very specific problem with a process that i have preformed sucessfully countless times.
i am very sure there is someone on the forum that could give me a very simple yes or no,but because of the entitlement attitude i will never ask.i have searched posts for two months with no good results.i will just let the beaker sit until i can find the answer myself or die trying.
john
Click to expand...

But exactly those are the questions, which are interesting for many. Those are the questions, some of us didn't know, we had.

Btw. I like some good beginners questions too, because the less experienced of us are able to answer and one way to learn, is to explain to others. What you are able to explain, you have mastered to some degree. Maybe the explaination is partly incorrect, then others will join in and correct, what somebody believed to know, but what he had misunderstood.

Asking is ok, as long as people are listening to the answers.
 
JHS said:
Scott,
i have a very specific question about a very specific problem with a process that i have preformed sucessfully countless times.
i am very sure there is someone on the forum that could give me a very simple yes or no,but because of the entitlement attitude i will never ask.i have searched posts for two months with no good results.i will just let the beaker sit until i can find the answer myself or die trying.
john
Click to expand...

This is frustrating because you took what I said, totally outside how it was meant in response to what you said before.

You stated this:
JHS said:
is it possible that they do not look,because they do not understand how the forum works? would it not be better to tell them up front.
Click to expand...

I was just simply showing that what you have suggested, has already been done, and to exhaustion. I gave you the links, I said nothing about NOT asking questions, I simply showed you that with very little effort information on how the forum works has already been posted.

If you thought I was saying not to ask questions, you took what I said wrong. I ask questions, all of us do, that is what this forum exists for.

I hope this clears up the confusion over my intent.

Scott
 
Scott,
I hope you don't feel, that I intended to criticize you. I just couldn't let John's last statement pass without comment.
 
scott I do not ask questions because of your entitlement attitude.
the only thing i am entitled to is the search box,and that is good enough.
if you think i would post a question then be belittled as i was the first time,
you sir are sadly mistaken.i am done so have the last word.
 
JHS said:
scott I do not ask questions because of your entitlement attitude.
the only thing i am entitled to is the search box,and that is good enough.
if you think i would post a question then be belittled as i was the first time,
you sir are sadly mistaken.i am done so have the last word.
Click to expand...

John,

I feel bad that you feel this way, I went back over your posts in order to try and figure out what it is I said or responded to that made you react this way, and couldn't figure it out. If you want, I would be open to you messaging me privately and expressing what it was I did to upset you, and I will be more than happy if I am in the wrong, or if I have said anything to belittle you, to apologize publicly, then maybe you will feel better about whatever it is that is bothering you. I know I am blunt, and maybe a little more honest than what propriety might dictate, but I also expect to be treated in kind, and don't easily get my feelings hurt. I certainly don't want to make you feel like my intent was to belittle you, because it wasn't. I don't want to apologize for something unless I know what it is, so that my apology is meaningful.

Scott
 
I'd like to clarify the issue of asking questions.

If any reader who has been on the board for a period of time doesn't understand our posture where this issue is concerned, it certainly warrants being addressed.

Questions are never discouraged. What is discouraged is asking questions that make it obvious the reader has done exactly NOTHING to better his/her understanding of the refining process. We ask readers to do that by reading Hoke. She, alone, has provided the fundamentals of refining, and presented them in such a way that even a complete fool can gain an understanding. Why must a person at the other end of the board relate the very information that has been made available to the reader through her book? Beyond that, once a reader understands the terminology we tend to use, questions that may not be answered in reading can be phrased such that others understand what is being asked.

This forum is about refiners helping refiners. PLEASE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE LAST TWO WORDS. We are not here to educate those who refuse to help themselves, nor do we wish to try. In fact, if a reader presses that issue, I'll ban him immediately. That's the entitlement attitude that does not stand well with me. If it's not important enough for the new guy to read and study so he gains much needed knowledge, why in hell should it be important for those of us who try to help to spend our precious time, time and again, explaining the very thing that the reader would find in Hoke's book----therefore avoiding asking questions?

Are you following me? What this boils down to is a test---a test which reveals that the reader is interested enough to exert some of his own energy, not just asking for a handout.

By the way, just saying you're reading, or have read, isn't enough. Most questions will reveal, almost instantly, that you have, or have not, read her book. Many of the questions being asked show that to be true.

JHS----I would like for you to ask your question. If you've done your homework and are being productive, you are certainly entitled to be heard, and deserve to learn what you seek. Remember, none of us were born with this knowledge---we learned by applying ourselves. I'm sure those who have the answer will gladly share their knowledge with you. You need not fear a negative response unless your question betrays you by disclosing that you haven't done your part in trying to learn. If that be the case, yeah, you're wise to not ask.

Harold
 
JHS said:
Scott,
i have a very specific question about a very specific problem with a process that i have preformed successfully countless times.
i am very sure there is someone on the forum that could give me a very simple yes or no,but because of the entitlement attitude i will never ask.i have searched posts for two months with no good results.i will just let the beaker sit until i can find the answer myself or die trying.
john
Click to expand...

The first thing i would look at is the amount of time you have been here on the forum and the number of posts you have made. If i looked at that and seen you have been here awhile and studying as well as participating then if you have a question i would assume you were just stuck and needed help as any student would ask of a teacher, not that you had an entitlement attitude and just wanted answers.
If you have a question and are truly stuck by all means do ask for help! We ask people to seek their own answers because on your way to finding those answers you are going to run across little jewels that will make you a rich man in knowledge.
 
Palladium,
I have sent my question to Harold in a pm.if he deems it invalid then i told him to feel free to ban me.
Harold is only my senior by a couple of years,so i do not have to have an answer, as i do not have to do this.
I just want to.
thanks john
 

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