precipitating gold

[jimdoc]

no offence, but even if I do a stannous chloride test

Can't be bothered with a two minute test?
Your success depends on it!

If you don't learn how to use stannous, you are setting yourself up for lots of problems by having to guess where your gold is. Dissolving everything in AR could very well precipitate all your gold, or a good portion of it, with the base metals. Don't dispose of anything until you know what it is.
Putting everything on hold until you get stannous and know how to use it would be a smart idea.

Jim

 

[qst42know]

of course the test will come back possitive,

That has yet to be determined.

There is a difference between reading for understanding and skimming for buzz words.

Your exact problem has been answered countless times perhaps you didn't skim deep enough.

 

[Harold_V]

Put your project on hold until you understand the basics of refining. That was my purpose in advising you to read Hoke. No one can tell you where your gold is---although I expect it's not just in one place. It is for that reason you need stannous chloride----and a better understanding of why you shouldn't dissolve values along with base metals.

We try to encourage readers to follow prescribed processes----for many reasons. One of the most important reasons is because they work---they are predictable. Right now it's important that you reprogram your thoughts. If you are intent on staying the course, it's highly unlikely you'll get much help here. Please do as you've been advised. When you finally understand what we're trying to tell you, you'll be pleased you did.

Harold

 

[texan]

nighthawk...

You would do well to spend some time learning the accumulated knowledge on this forum before you make any atempts at pm recovery...and I say recovery because you are nowhere near the refining stage yet. I would suggest you work with the AP or acid/peroxide method as a learning tool before you graduate to using nitric. I have been learning recovery with AP for 18 months or so and have not yet purchased any nitric.

Texan

 

[patnor1011]

Can you break down what you dissolved? Like what was weight and type of pins, weight of fingers, how many CPU and what type? That may indicate how much of gold you can expect from your failed batch. I thing that 50grams of SMB was way too much to use for start.

 

[glondor]

Night hawk. Your assumptions about the Stannous test are incorrect. Your gold may have cemented out of solution on to the base metals and is now at the bottom of your jar in an elemental form. This is why the ability to test is very important. There are many threads here on making the Stannous solution. It is very easy and takes literally 2 minutes to prepare.

Keep all your materials and search through some threads here for all your answers. Cheers and good luck.

 

[Nighthawk]

Can you break down what you dissolved? Like what was weight and type of pins, weight of fingers, how many CPU and what type? That may indicate how much of gold you can expect from your failed batch. I thing that 50grams of SMB was way too much to use for start.

All the parts where from computer parts, PINS from motherboard conectors CD/DVD , Floppy drive, Hard Drives etc (about 120 grams) foils from NIC cards, Video Cards (230 grams) 600 grams of Ram and about 8 CPUs a bit older models, 486's Pentium 3 's a few Socket A ... in total it was about 2.5 - 3 lbs...not a whole lot but something to start on a first batch...

 

[Nighthawk]

Thanks glondor, did not consider that option, and hope that is not the case ...the making of it is the easy part, finding the products to make it is sometimes 90% of the battle

 

[dtectr]

Thanks glondor, did not consider that option, and hope that is not the case ...the making of it is the easy part, finding the products to make it is sometimes 90% of the battle

Not wanting to get off the couch is often 100% of the battle, amigo 8)

We wish you success, we really do, but if you can't take the time to learn the most basic science of this field, you will wind up with three things -
1.) Broke (because you won't recover any gold),
2.) Blind (because you didn't understand what you were doing & got horribly disfigured by hot & super corrosive chemicals) and finally,
3.) In prison (for many things: A. Creation of & failure to dispose properly of of hazardous waste B. Involuntary manslaughter, for killing someone else because you didn't know how to properly handle the processes that horribly disfigured you.

I do not mean to sound cocky or unsympathetic, nor do I have the authority to issue warnings as the moderators (who have been very patient with you, thus far, by the way) do, but please take my advice, one budding hobbyist to another - Begin following the directions given here or I suspect that you will be frozen out by board members.

So, go to lazersteve's signature line & follow the Forum Rough Guide, print off your online copy of Hoke (it will get your butt out of the chair :lol: ) & begin learning. It is an exciting journey - I've only been here a little over a year & I'm just scratching the surface!

I would say "Good luck", but as Barren's signature line says, luck usually has very little to do with success.

I will say "hang in there" & "I wish you success!"

 

[patnor1011]

Can you break down what you dissolved? Like what was weight and type of pins, weight of fingers, how many CPU and what type? That may indicate how much of gold you can expect from your failed batch. I thing that 50grams of SMB was way too much to use for start.

All the parts where from computer parts, PINS from motherboard conectors CD/DVD , Floppy drive, Hard Drives etc (about 120 grams) foils from NIC cards, Video Cards (230 grams) 600 grams of Ram and about 8 CPUs a bit older models, 486's Pentium 3 's a few Socket A ... in total it was about 2.5 - 3 lbs...not a whole lot but something to start on a first batch...

Video Cards (230 grams) 600 grams of Ram - you mean whole video cards and whole RAM sticks?

 

[Nighthawk]

Can you break down what you dissolved? Like what was weight and type of pins, weight of fingers, how many CPU and what type? That may indicate how much of gold you can expect from your failed batch. I thing that 50grams of SMB was way too much to use for start.

All the parts where from computer parts, PINS from motherboard conectors CD/DVD , Floppy drive, Hard Drives etc (about 120 grams) foils from NIC cards, Video Cards (230 grams) 600 grams of Ram and about 8 CPUs a bit older models, 486's Pentium 3 's a few Socket A ... in total it was about 2.5 - 3 lbs...not a whole lot but something to start on a first batch...

Video Cards (230 grams) 600 grams of Ram - you mean whole video cards and whole RAM sticks?

No, I cut off the gold plated ends, trying to keep as much scrap out ...there where a few complete RAM stick because the real old ones had some on the body, but like I said I tried to keep it as clean as possible.

 

[patnor1011]

You do not need to worry then. You look at 2 to 5 grams of gold in your solution. I would say close to lower half of this estimate +- 3 grams. You don't really need to rush to sort out this, you will be able to recover that later. Try not to mix material together as that only complicate things. Do every type of material separately when you accumulate more material and gain more knowledge.

 

[Nighthawk]

You do not need to worry then. You look at 2 to 5 grams of gold in your solution. I would say close to lower half of this estimate +- 3 grams. You don't really need to rush to sort out this, you will be able to recover that later. Try not to mix material together as that only complicate things. Do every type of material separately when you accumulate more material and gain more knowledge.

well that is good to hear, Apreciate the info, tips, and knowledge shared....do you know what the yeild of gold is per lbs of pins,? the reason I ask is that I have seen some people selling them and was wondering if it is worth just bying them to process instead of me doing the work finding them and cutting them off?

 

[glondor]

You do not need to worry then. You look at 2 to 5 grams of gold in your solution. I would say close to lower half of this estimate +- 3 grams. You don't really need to rush to sort out this, you will be able to recover that later. Try not to mix material together as that only complicate things. Do every type of material separately when you accumulate more material and gain more knowledge.

well that is good to hear, Apreciate the info, tips, and knowledge shared....do you know what the yeild of gold is per lbs of pins,? the reason I ask is that I have seen some people selling them and was wondering if it is worth just bying them to process instead of me doing the work finding them and cutting them off?

This question is like asking how much is a new car. There are pins and then there are PINS and everything in between. I.E Gold on tip, flash plate 1 side, 2 side, whole pin outside, whole pin, small medium large and so on and so on....

This is where experience, good notes and the ability to ferret out info from previous posts is a must. There are pins worth $2 dollars a pound and pins worth $ 150 a pound or more.

An easy and quantifiable place to start is with fingers from memory. Values are known, can be done with out nitric, you never loose site of the gold and can give you a nice button. (my first button from fingers was 18 grams). It was from 135 pounds of memory mind you.

All the info you need is here. You just have to be determined to find it. Cheers!

(addition to post) One way to determine pin values is to research a certain type, say like a particular Amp connector or average pins from motherboards or which ever type strikes your fancy. Determine the values per pound via reading the forum and making a sound judgement, questions may be entertained on a particular type of pin and the info you receive may be helpful although there are no guarantees. Much of the info is hard won by members and for business reasons can not be shared lightly, but you can be assured no one will steer you wrong. Take the info and insite and then only buy the type you know about. Make notes.

 

[Nighthawk]

Ok, guys, I think I'm almost ready to nutralize the nitric acid, and recover the cold out of my solution (I said Almost) still need to test it, I read Hokes eplanation over and over and over lol one thing that I did not see is my exact problem, as you might have read from previous post, I added sodium Besulfitr before nutralizing, in Hokes book, she mentiones using sulfuric Acid to nutralize the Acid, wow, not sure I want to use that stuff, and not to mention availability, is there any new method that can be used ? I seen using Urea but I also seen where this adds products to your gold and not always desirable (not to mention getting that stuff also? so can I use anything oter product beside sulfuric acid to nutralize the acid that would be acceptable. I'm not trying to cut corners, just info on new acceptable methods

thanks

 

[goldenchild]

Search for "denox evaporate"

 

[Harold_V]

Ok, guys, I think I'm almost ready to nutralize the nitric acid, and recover the cold out of my solution (I said Almost) still need to test it, I read Hokes eplanation over and over and over lol one thing that I did not see is my exact problem, as you might have read from previous post, I added sodium Besulfitr before nutralizing, in Hokes book, she mentiones using sulfuric Acid to nutralize the Acid, wow, not sure I want to use that stuff, and not to mention availability, is there any new method that can be used ? I seen using Urea but I also seen where this adds products to your gold and not always desirable (not to mention getting that stuff also? so can I use anything oter product beside sulfuric acid to nutralize the acid that would be acceptable. I'm not trying to cut corners, just info on new acceptable methods

thanks

Nighthawk, nothing you're saying makes any sense. I pretty good indication that you're skimming through Hoke's book and not learning anything. At no time does Hoke suggest you use sulfuric acid to eliminate nitric acid---it is used to ensure that you don't carry lead through the operation.

Read the damned book. Forget about recovering anything at this point in time. You're going to wear out your welcome if you keep asking questions when everything you need to know is already in your hands via Hoke's book. She keeps repeating the pertinent information over and over----you're just not paying attention.

Harold

 

[Nighthawk]

No I am not skimming through the book,


in chapter 5 she does say to use it to nutralize the acid, and yes another reason is to remove lead,

then in section 6 she mentiones using copperas to nutralize remaining acid or use the method in above section 5, with hcl boilling down etc..... so not sure why you say I make no sence, I'm quotting the book you suggested I read? but part of her process is using Sulphuric acid?? now I am confused, everyone says read it, follow it and don't take shorcuts, now you tell me no , don;t do that, I am willing to learn and do it right, but....

 

[goldenchild]

I think you are both correct.

"Put the aqua regia solution into a big evaporating dish. It will
contain some sediment, mostly silver chloride; this does no harm at
this point, so do not filter it yet. Now add a little sulphuric acid,
stirring all the time, and working slowly, as it might spatter. Use
about an ounce or less of the sulphuric acid to each quart of liquid.
Now boil the solution down gently, to a syrup, being careful not to
spatter. The purpose of the sulphuric acid will be explained later."

"Do not carry the evaporation far enough to form a hard crust.
One reason for the sulphuric acid is that it hastens the expulsion of the nitric acid,
and when it is present there is less tendency for a
hard crust to be formed. The sulphuric acid also serves another purpose
to get rid of lead which is described fully in a later chapter."

But keep this in mind for whatever you are using if for.

"The beginner sometimes finds that the gold is very slow to come down.
Usually the trouble is that the liquid contains too high a concentration of
acid; that is, maybe he failed to evaporate off all his excess nitric acid;
or maybe he used too much sulphuric or hydrochloric acid in previous
steps."

 

[Harold_V]

No I am not skimming through the book,


in chapter 5 she does say to use it to nutralize the acid, and yes another reason is to remove lead,

I stand corrected! (It's been MANY years since I cracked that book)

then in section 6 she mentiones using copperas to nutralize remaining acid or use the method in above section 5, with hcl boilling down etc..... so not sure why you say I make no sence, I'm quotting the book you suggested I read? but part of her process is using Sulphuric acid?? now I am confused, everyone says read it, follow it and don't take shorcuts, now you tell me no , don;t do that, I am willing to learn and do it right, but....

Ok, lets take another look at the problem. First, it's very important that you not use excessive nitric. It's a royal pain to eliminate, as you likely are coming to understand.

From my perspective, there's no way for me to know if you have a nitric problem, or not, but that's pretty much the most common mistake made by the new guy, and that included myself when I was first refining.

I have always recommended evaporation (NOT BOILING) to eliminate nitric. It was a simple operation, the only real limiting factor being it is slow. To hasten the elimination of nitric, I typically added a button of pure gold to the solution being evaporated----which would consume the acid. That's a great way to go if you have the gold available.

If you have continuing problems with this lot----it might be a good idea to cement the values on copper, then start over. Don't get discouraged---and keep reading Hoke. As you begin to understand the processes, it will all start making sense, and you'll be able to deduce the solution for your problem.

It would be very helpful for the new guy to understand that refining isn't difficult, but if you don't understand the basics, it can be daunting. Sort of like buying a piano and scheduling your first recital when you've never played a note.

Harold

Edit: I failed to continue my comments in regards to evaporation. When I commented on sulfuric, while I was wrong about it not helping eliminate nitric, what I wanted to say, and failed to do so, was that you add HCl to the (hot) concentrated gold chloride solution. When you've carried evaporation far enough, when you add the HCl, you see an instant evolution of brown fumes. That was what I was concentrating on when I suggested sulfuric wasn't proper. Sorry to have misspoken, but, hopefully, this will help clarify the actual process of evaporation. Note that it may require more than one iteration to eliminate all the nitric.