Pyrolysis reactor

[cosmetal]

Kj,

Since they are the same size, how did you stabilize the afterburner chamber to the top of the pyrolysis chamber?

I couldn't determine that from your pics - please elaborate.

Thanks!
James

 

[autumnwillow]

Greeting everyone,

I finally put together a small scale of 4metals duo pyrolysis/incineration design mentioned in his great "smelting" post.

As expected, worked with the best results I have gotten from any pyro unit that I have built. No smokes and no smell.

Here is the components for this new pyro design,

Pyrolysis chamber
I used a piece of pipe which one end is welded. I used smaller width pipe so heat can get to the components inside.
View attachment 4

A cap
To control the flow rate of fumes. There is an half inch hole on top of it to allow chamber to vent.
View attachment 3

A container to cover the chamber and cap, also to contain the heat. I used a steel paint can which already been heated.
View attachment 2

Afterburner
This is same size paint can as pyrolysis cover, but insulated with kaewool, so once heated it can reach 1000c in 10 minutes.
View attachment 1

Here is the whole system during operation, I lit the afterburner first for 15 minutes, then pyrolysis chamber using medium heat from its burner, after about 10 minutes, increased the heat for pyrolysis to max until the flames you see emitting from afterburner changed color to faint clear yellow.


The materials I used for this test was about 200 grams of connectors, SMDs, aluminum capactiors, and pieces of boards and ICs.

As you may note, photos were taken after pyrolysis completed hence the black color components.

Again many thanks to 4metals to share with us this cool design.

Best regards
Kj

Are you using a thermometer? If the chamber goes 1000degC that's no longer pyrolysis. You should control the temperature. It should only be around 600 to 700degc. You will have too many metals melt at 1000degc which will cause problems.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[cosmetal]

Kurt,

I don't think ash from incinerating IC:s is basic. Wood ash, yes, it's from basic oxides of K, Ca, Na and so on if I remember correctly. The ash from incinerating IC:s consists of the filler which is fine quartz sand and doesn't dissolve in water. This should be easy to check by just testing the wash water with a pH strip, but if it was basic then it would feel soapy when washing incinerated IC:s and I don't recall any such experience.

I have built an electric oven that I do my final incineration in, prior to that I have pyrolyzed the IC:s so there are only carbon left. By setting the temperature so the inside is glowing the incineration works quite well. No fast air currents that transports away dust, no open flame that consumes the oxygen. Just turn it on and check on it now and then to see how far the incineration have gone. When chips are white all through the body they are ready.
The oven was built from bits and pieces that came in as scrap, the only thing I bought was a PID-regulator, a temperature probe working up to 1100 C and two fire bricks.

Göran

Ok, Goran . . . you know someone was going to ask for pics and a further elaboration on it's build.

I'll bite . . . pics and info, please! :?: :?:

Thanks!
James

 

[im1badpup1]

Im sure you realise what your doing with this method of pyrolysis is 'cracking' plastic. The same method applies when cracking crude oils and recovering various fractions. The fractions are for example fuel for vehicles, oils for lubrication, base chemicals for pharmaceutical synthesis and industrial chemicals like acetone.
If you control the heat and contact time at a given temperature you can be more selective to the hydrocarbons? Type youll recover. Add a reactor and metal catalyst and you will be able to produce fractions what dominate in yield in the recovered material.

Whether you can get it economically viable or nots another thing


You could also use supercritical steam to finish off the pyrolysis or as part of the process. Whether its useful or not to do so i dont know. Just thought id toss that one out

Its all very simple engineering design builds youve basically got it with that reactor and feed system for the gas produced.

When pyrolysis and incinerations complete as far as i know part of the remaining residue when separated from the precious metals, is really toxic. Definately dont be handling ir breathing it in.

 

[g_axelsson]

Kurt,

I don't think ash from incinerating IC:s is basic. Wood ash, yes, it's from basic oxides of K, Ca, Na and so on if I remember correctly. The ash from incinerating IC:s consists of the filler which is fine quartz sand and doesn't dissolve in water. This should be easy to check by just testing the wash water with a pH strip, but if it was basic then it would feel soapy when washing incinerated IC:s and I don't recall any such experience.

I have built an electric oven that I do my final incineration in, prior to that I have pyrolyzed the IC:s so there are only carbon left. By setting the temperature so the inside is glowing the incineration works quite well. No fast air currents that transports away dust, no open flame that consumes the oxygen. Just turn it on and check on it now and then to see how far the incineration have gone. When chips are white all through the body they are ready.
The oven was built from bits and pieces that came in as scrap, the only thing I bought was a PID-regulator, a temperature probe working up to 1100 C and two fire bricks.

Göran

Ok, Goran . . . you know someone was going to ask for pics and a further elaboration on it's build.

I'll bite . . . pics and info, please! :?: :?:

Thanks!
James

Sure, it took some time to dig out the pictures but here are some...

Built from a small 19" steel cabinet and the heating element from a smoke machine, added insulation and a PID-regulator with temperature sensor.

Here is the final insulation, rockwool. The box holding the heater is removed to do some modifications. The outside wasn't even warm when the inside was on red heat. I still got the plastic handles on the sides.

I had to add three firebricks to add mechanical strength, the rockwool just collapsed when hot and under load.

The heat is on... the discoloration shows where the heat goes. As a front door I'm just using a sheet of rockwool held in place by some iron wires. At the back corner you can see the temperature sensor.

Incinerated material, this was a beaker with gold powder that I had to sweep up from the floor. The ash is from dirt, debris and papers I collected in the process. Aqua regia dissolved the gold and it was easy to filter and easy to drop.
I've used this oven for IC:s and some other material too.


I'm only running material that has been pyrolysed first so there is no smoke, just carbon dioxide coming out. A couple of hours at a suitable temperature (just barely glowing) removes all the carbon easily. But I still only run it outside until I can get a suitable ventilation

Göran

 

[kjavanb123]

Kj,

Since they are the same size, how did you stabilize the afterburner chamber to the top of the pyrolysis chamber?

I couldn't determine that from your pics - please elaborate.

Thanks!
James

James

Since both chambers are the same size, they fit on top of each other, only the burner is leaning on 2 bricks on the side and pointing to afterburner.

Regards
Kj

 

[kjavanb123]

Greeting everyone,

I finally put together a small scale of 4metals duo pyrolysis/incineration design mentioned in his great "smelting" post.

As expected, worked with the best results I have gotten from any pyro unit that I have built. No smokes and no smell.

Here is the components for this new pyro design,

Pyrolysis chamber
I used a piece of pipe which one end is welded. I used smaller width pipe so heat can get to the components inside.
image.jpg

A cap
To control the flow rate of fumes. There is an half inch hole on top of it to allow chamber to vent.
image.jpg

A container to cover the chamber and cap, also to contain the heat. I used a steel paint can which already been heated.
image.jpg

Afterburner
This is same size paint can as pyrolysis cover, but insulated with kaewool, so once heated it can reach 1000c in 10 minutes.
image.jpg

Here is the whole system during operation, I lit the afterburner first for 15 minutes, then pyrolysis chamber using medium heat from its burner, after about 10 minutes, increased the heat for pyrolysis to max until the flames you see emitting from afterburner changed color to faint clear yellow.
image.jpg

The materials I used for this test was about 200 grams of connectors, SMDs, aluminum capactiors, and pieces of boards and ICs.

As you may note, photos were taken after pyrolysis completed hence the black color components.

Again many thanks to 4metals to share with us this cool design.

Best regards
Kj

Are you using a thermometer? If the chamber goes 1000degC that's no longer pyrolysis. You should control the temperature. It should only be around 600 to 700degc. You will have too many metals melt at 1000degc which will cause problems.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Hi

I meant the afterburner chamber to reach 1000c first and I usualy test it with a piece of copper wire stick it to afterburner chamber once it softened it must be 1000c plus.

For pyrolysis chamber (bottom) I lit up burner to medium heat.

Ran different types of boards and components it works great. Again thanks 4metals for the idea.

I am going bigger on this design as we have close to 4 tons of bare boards to be pyrolyze then incinerated using large scale design.

Best
Kj

 

[cosmetal]

Kurt,

I don't think ash from incinerating IC:s is basic. Wood ash, yes, it's from basic oxides of K, Ca, Na and so on if I remember correctly. The ash from incinerating IC:s consists of the filler which is fine quartz sand and doesn't dissolve in water. This should be easy to check by just testing the wash water with a pH strip, but if it was basic then it would feel soapy when washing incinerated IC:s and I don't recall any such experience.

I have built an electric oven that I do my final incineration in, prior to that I have pyrolyzed the IC:s so there are only carbon left. By setting the temperature so the inside is glowing the incineration works quite well. No fast air currents that transports away dust, no open flame that consumes the oxygen. Just turn it on and check on it now and then to see how far the incineration have gone. When chips are white all through the body they are ready.
The oven was built from bits and pieces that came in as scrap, the only thing I bought was a PID-regulator, a temperature probe working up to 1100 C and two fire bricks.

Göran

Ok, Goran . . . you know someone was going to ask for pics and a further elaboration on it's build.

I'll bite . . . pics and info, please! :?: :?:

Thanks!
James

Sure, it took some time to dig out the pictures but here are some...

Built from a small 19" steel cabinet and the heating element from a smoke machine, added insulation and a PID-regulator with temperature sensor.
DSC_6504.jpg
Here is the final insulation, rockwool. The box holding the heater is removed to do some modifications. The outside wasn't even warm when the inside was on red heat. I still got the plastic handles on the sides.
DSC_6510.jpg
I had to add three firebricks to add mechanical strength, the rockwool just collapsed when hot and under load.
DSC_6518.jpg
The heat is on... the discoloration shows where the heat goes. As a front door I'm just using a sheet of rockwool held in place by some iron wires. At the back corner you can see the temperature sensor.
DSC_6527.jpg
Incinerated material, this was a beaker with gold powder that I had to sweep up from the floor. The ash is from dirt, debris and papers I collected in the process. Aqua regia dissolved the gold and it was easy to filter and easy to drop.
I've used this oven for IC:s and some other material too.
DSC_6530.jpg

I'm only running material that has been pyrolysed first so there is no smoke, just carbon dioxide coming out. A couple of hours at a suitable temperature (just barely glowing) removes all the carbon easily. But I still only run it outside until I can get a suitable ventilation

Göran

Goran,

Thank you for the pics and the design. Like it - very simple and straightforward. Therefore, very elegant!

Sigh . . . ! :roll:

Now I have Kj's/4Metals burner and your chamber to build! :shock:

When will it end . . .

James

 

[snoman701]

I cannot seem to find rockwool around here. It's too industrial for Home Depot or the like, and not rated high enough for the refractory guys.

I've wanted to get some panels for quite some time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Yggdrasil]

Here in the Nordic countries its common for insulating our houses. ;-)
Countrary to glass insulation, it is more heat resistant and will not hold on to moisture if it get wet.
We can find it at any shop for building materials.
BR Per-Ove

 

[kjavanb123]

I cannot seem to find rockwool around here. It's too industrial for Home Depot or the like, and not rated high enough for the refractory guys.

I've wanted to get some panels for quite some time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Try kaewool blanket instead.

 

[geedigity]

Definitely use Kaowool verses either fiberglass insulation (easily melts) or rockwool (disintegrates after being subjected to high heat).

 

[g_axelsson]

I haven't been able to find a local supply of kaowool here in Sweden, though I haven't looked too hard.
Rockwool was what was cheap and easy to pick up in town. I probably just spent a few dollars on the insulation.
I'm also looking for these light weight fire bricks you can cut with a saw. The ones I have access to here in town is only the heavy dense type shown in the pictures.

If I can get a close temperature control I can probably use the oven for PGM salt conversions and a silver chloride conversion that GSP or Lou talked about. But that is experiments for the future.

Göran

 

[im1badpup1]

Goran, try asking a gas engineer for the old firebricks from the back of gas fires or collect them from scrapyard. They do stack together well the back of them making a good 'face' Some pizza oven types have a huge vermiculite firebrick type board what if upto standard would come in very useful.

How are people sealing the lid, or the opening where they transfer material in and out to Make it gas tight?

Surely just bolting tight isnt sufficient. Do they use something like a copper gasket .. my concern is itd mistakenly melt if temperature momentarily spiked. Would glass wool when compacted as a gasket bolted tight make a sufficient seal?

Id of liked a rotating pyrolysis chamber for the benefits of much faster and efficiency in completion of pyrolysis but the complexity or cost makes it less viable unless having a heavy workload.

But i did come up with the idea to use a calor gas bottle as reactor on its side sat on roller bars what can be manually rotated at intervals from the outside
The produced gas outlet pipe would need to be temporay disconnected from feeding back into the furnace while doing so.

Been able to rotate and agitate your materials would really help ensure complete pyrolysis and only need to be done a couple of times late on when the reaction is dying down.
Apart from been faster itd solve some of the problems people are having in this thread.
One is heat wasnt getting sufficiently to the centre of the reactor to pyrolise materials there.
Another was densley packed materials had colder spots and incomplete pyrolysis.
You could heat for longer but the carbon been produced is insulating and protecting the material it may be no amount of time will complete the reaction.
Its a lot of work to find out after cooling and examining your material you need to mix it up and do it all again

In fact ive just thought of a simple design concept to allow the rotation of the reactor and the gas produced going out can be fed through a watertrap back into the reactor without any complex fitting needed. It just is bubbled into the trap the hose off the pipe is turning but free in the water. The gas bubbles up into a trap what pushes it back down another pipe back to the reactor to be burned. Il draw what i mean its dead simple.

 

[Grelko]

This may be a little off subject but...

After dissolving material in AP, I'm going to have a lot of leftover chips, plastic and other trash.

Is it possible to make a small pyrolysis container, using a welded together, steel box with a hinged door, then setting it on a hotplate? Basically it would be like a small pot belly stove.

If the hotplate doesn't get hot enough, I can always use coal underneath, but I'm afraid that I would melt the steel if I introduced a breeze from a heatgun, hairdryer or fan. I don't want to melt the material into a glob, I just want to have ash and metal at the end.

There's no open burning allowed in town "burning leaves etc." but if I can do this without leaving much smoke or smell, it should be ok.

Then afterwards, filter the ash "or use a goldpan", and re-dissolve what's left.


Edit - After re-reading this entire post, I would have to say, the setup I would be making is a bit similar to Goran's (heating element) design on page 5. Except that the heat I would be using, is coming from under the container on the outside.

 

[kjavanb123]

Hi all,

I like to update this old post with the latest pyrolysis system.


Here are the ICs from memory RAM sticks after completely pyrolyzed, note few chips on the top turned into ash.


In this system, smokes from the white container on the left is sucked into the torch and mixed with air and burned.

There was no smells or smokes while system was working.

Hope this helps out members here.

 

[kjavanb123]

Hi

Just came across this design using two barrels to make charcoals. I wonder if this can be used to pyrolyse circuit boards.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=COPqvVH7jiw

 

[kjavanb123]

Hi

Here is an update on using the same 2 barrel system for pyrolysis of boards. It ran for 40 minutes no smoke or smell at all. I will check the boards tommorow with pictures.

 

[texnojnik]

My version of the reactor. There is no air boost yet, I have adapted a gasoline lamp for testing. It was planned to supply air horizontally, and from below a gas burner for ignition and maintenance of gorenje.