Re: Why Red Aqua Regia ??

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butcher

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If you read and study you will find this in much more detail, and you would learn a million other things you do not know now and maybe struggling to learn.

You will not learn to crawl or walk if you always try to have someone hold your hand, sooner or later you will need to learn to walk on your own and study on your own or you will never learn to run...

Put clean soft iron (as pure as possible) in an acid-proof and heatable pot.
Put 10% H2SO4 sulfuric acid in the pot.
The green solution formed when heated is copperas or dissolved salts of iron and the acid called ferrous sulfate.
Evaporating the solution will give you the fresh green crystals.

The crystals should be stored wet under the concentrated acidic solution, HDPE plastic bottle to help keep crystals from oxidizing...

if you study you will have a better understanding, and not just jumping onto the next problem, wondering what to do next or why things do not work the way you think they should.

Testing the gold with crystals in a spot dish gives a brown ring of precipitated gold, which can remove gold from the solution, as Harold suggested we can move the gold barren solution to another well of the dish and proceed to test for some other metal or platinum group (now with gold removed to disrupt the results...
You have to read more on your own to find the whole story.

precipitating gold copperas can be used as a selective reagent for the metal. to learn more details you will have to let go of my hand and learn to crawl so you can learn to walk, and before you know it you will be running a successful gold refining operation.

Any good prospector worth his salt knows how to study to do his due diligence and hard work to find the gold, lazy prospectors are always asking someone else to show them where it is (or how to find it), which one do you think finds the gold?

I have square eyes too I have read every single post on this forum, I have made a few thousands of those posts myself, many like this one trying to help someone else learn or get them to learn how to study on their own to learn a few of the things I have learned from the years of hard work.
 

prospector_pete

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thankyou so much for your reply and for the info .
i will give it a go and try making my own

but can i ask , you and everyone else to stop making reference to me holding hands or asking people to do the work for me.

ive already stated that i have read and read and read , then i read some more . i am trying to do the hard yards myself .
im not execting an easy handout here . im happy to research and figure things out for myself . but its no good if i dont know how . ive typed in how to make iron sulfate . and . a how to make copperas . .
i only saw snippets of info . i was looking for the full process , hoping someone had previously posted how to do it.

'im tired of people assuming im lazy . . the only reason i came here and asked is because i need help . isnt that what forums are for ?

i have done so many experiments behind the scenes with the iron sulfate i have , trying to figure out how to do it on my own . . and all im doing is wasting gold solution .
there comes a point where even the experienced need to put their hands up and say someone help please.
id really appreciiate it if everyone would stop thinking i havent tried and that ive just come here looking for answers.
i have tried , and tried more and then for good measure ive tried again.

rant over.

anyway as i said , thankyou so much for your info.

is it going to be too much of an issue if i post pics of my attempt to make my own copperas to see if its looking right ?
 

jimdoc

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You ask this;

"but can i ask , you and everyone else to stop making reference to me holding hands or asking people to do the work for me."

What do you call this?

can i please bother someone for directions on how to make copperas, and then how to use it.
in lamens terms please


When you search for your answers you find other things you didn't even know to ask yet.
The search box doesn't make reference to holding hands or anything else to offend you.
 

prospector_pete

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omg.
ive already told you . ive tried using the search box and havent found what im looking for .
and i know most likely it is due to me asking the wrong question . i know the info is out there and i obviously didnt search properly , hence the reason why i came here to ask.

if its really so damn hard for someone to just point me in the right direction . then just forget about it.
clearly yous have more fun critisizing people than actually helping them,

my bad , coming here to a forum , thinking people who know better will help.
what was i thinking
 

butcher

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Pete,
I did not come here to ask questions, I came to learn, and I used the forum and the information it contained, I studied everything I could, and I still do.

Any new field of study you begin like this one that can take you three lifetimes to only learn a small part of it will be a difficult journey, to begin with, you need to learn to speak a new language, you will need to understand many of the basic principles, you will also have to learn how to study the subject.

Beginning the journey is the hardest, especially when you are blinded by gold fever, you will struggle trying things you do not understand or have not researched yet, in your haste to waste or overlook gold in the frantic search, you waste more time studying and trying to learn to overcome a mess or to get some chemical experiment to go as the books say it should, you climb the hills blindly in search of yellow metal, without understanding what formed the gold in the region and why it is deposited where it is, and what form it would be in, where it is and where it is not...

It is only after you get past that hump of beginning your journey does the real trip begin, you gain an understanding of the language, you gain a basic understanding of the principles, you stopped frantically picking up every yellow rock of pyrite, and gained an understanding of the field of gold before beginning your search, you have gained experience in how to recover or pan the gold, you know where it is and where to get it, you understand enough to grow with this lifelong study and field of work persuing any portion of these vast skills you wish to learn more about.

To get gold it takes practice and patients, you need both, more practice with the search function for the information you need, more practice studying, and much more patients (relax learn and then do) which in itself is a lifelong lesson...
 

prospector_pete

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ok well heres a question which im sure isnt in any of the threads , atleast i havent seen it . and yes i looked .
i got some sulfamic acid today but all i could find was liquid form , ive only ever seen people using a powder.
i dont see why it would be a problem but for peace of mind id like to know ,
is liquid for ok ?
 

butcher

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Can you post the MSDS sheet for the chemical you are discussing or some more information?

Sodium chloride can be sold as a liquid or a powder, the metal salt is just that a metal salt of the acid and the metal.

Sulfamic acid, amidosulfonic acid, amidosulfuric acid, aminosulfonic acid, and sulfamidic acid, is a molecular compound with the formula H3NSO3. is a colorless, water-soluble compound.

The MSDS sheet will give you details of the safe use of the product and can give you clues of what chemical compounds are used in the product...

Boiler scale removers like sulfamic acid are sold in many forms, dry salts or liquids, or solid blocks of slats, sometimes they are pure products like sulfamic acid or a combination of products or ingredients or acids with proprietary blends, the MSDS or safety data sheet will normally give clues to the chemical compound...
 

prospector_pete

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thats a very informative reply . thankyou so much.
im very computer challenged , i would have no idea how or where to find a data sheet about a product. i can take a pic of the bottle if that helps
 

galenrog

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MSDS = Material Safety Data Sheet.

I have had a need for these since I was a teenager. I am now well over 60. The MSDS, in conjunction with information from package labeling will, in most cases, tell you active and inert ingredients of contents.

Time for more coffee.
 

butcher

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what is an MSDS or safety data sheet?
How do I find one?

Here is some information on a common molecular chemical compound you should be familiar with and use often in finding, mining, recovering, and even refining gold, called hydric acid, or dihydrogen monoxide.


https://www.dhmo.org/msds/MSDS-DHMO-Kemp.pdf
https://www.monroecti.org/cms/lib07/PA03000492/Centricity/Domain/37/Dihydrogen%20Monoxide%20FAQ.pdf

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01ycTtGa_AR2pXXj0tlcYzQ_UZsRQ%3A1588694710212&ei=to6xXuzBDN6z0PEPtPGqWA&q=what+is+MSDS+how+do+I+get+them%3F&oq=what+is+MSDS+how+do+I+get+them%3F&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDDIFCCEQqwIyBQghEKsCMgUIIRCrAjoECAAQRzoECCMQJzoCCAA6BAgAEEM6BwgAEBQQhwI6BggAEAcQHjoECAAQDToFCAAQkQI6BggAEBYQHjoICCEQFhAdEB46BQgAEM0COgUIIRCgAVDdG1isxAFg6-gBaABwAngAgAGjA4gBxyGSAQowLjI0LjMuMC4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjs9O7-jJ3pAhXeGTQIHbS4CgsQ4dUDCAw
 

Geo

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im hoping someone can help me with a simil;ar problem . i had some solution from when i did 2 kilos of mixed ic chips. the solution was a dark mess which i couldnt do anything with , so i dropped what i hope was gold by using copper.
then i put the black silt into AR . i was extremely delighted when my AR turned a lovely dark orange and when tested with stannous , it immidiately gave a solid black result, i thought wow it must be really concentrated with gold. i have had issues precipitating for years tho , its the final stage of gold recovery that i always have problems with . so i plled out my tiny 250 ml beakers to try several different attempts at dropping gold.
in one beaker i put distilled water on heat and added iron sulfate . i left it on heat for about 10 minutes to try and disolve the powder , once disolved i put hcl to make it go green as id seen on videos . also hokes book talks about adding hcl to iron sulfate.when i poured the iron sulfate solution into the sample of AR , it turned brown and hasnt changed , nothing dropped.

in a second beaker i put AR to almost the top and added smb powder. i kept getting what i thought was either red or brown bubbles . as id never heard of red bubbles , i assumed it must be gold dropping then redisolving. which puzzles me as i had used urea untill no more reaction and there was even a little bit that wouldnt disolve . so i thought how could there possibly be any free nitric.

in a third beaker i put a small amount of AR then added smb which was disolved in water first and warmed up to help disolve . once i added it to the solution it went deep red.
im totally lost , i have no idea why or how it can turn red.

i still have half a coffee pot of the AR , which by the way turned light green after i diluted it to twice its volume and added urea.
what should i do with the remaining solution ?
i would really appreciate your help guys
I know this is an old post. When you use urea to neutralize nitric acid, it doesn't really neutralize it all. It converts some to byproducts like urea nitrate. Urea nitrate, when dry, is very unstable and can explode with little pressure. In it's pure form, it is a high explosive. Certain things that you can do will liberate the nitric acid from the nitrated byproducts. So there is the possibility that the gold simply redissolved back into solution. Ferrous sulfate pentahydrate is a blue color and contains extra water in the crystal. Ferrous sulfate heptahydrate is a aquamarine crystal that slowly oxidizes to a tan to brown color. Anhydrous ferrous sulfate is a white powder. Iron oxide is red and that is staining the white powder. When you mix your dry ferrous sulfate crystals, add a small amount of concentrated sulfuric acid. It will instantly dissolve the off color "rust" and make an aquamarine color. Adding HCl to discolored will not add any benefits to the process. Adding sulfuric acid will redissolve the oxide and recreate useful copperas. Below are two photos. One is anhydrous ferrous sulfate (white -off white) and ferrous sulfate heptahydrate (aquamarine crystals).
" All the iron(II) sulfates dissolve in water to give the same aquo complex [Fe(H2O)6]2+"
220px-Iron(II)-sulfate-heptahydrate-sample.jpg
Síran_železnatý.png
 
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