Recovering copper from clad

[AlanInMo]

Hi fellas, I'm a newbie here (2 weeks old), watched all of Steve's videos, followed links and read till my eyes are sore.. :lol:

After searching the forum (great forum I must add!) for the past couple weeks, I'm unable to find the best process needed to recover copper from copper-steel clad wire.

I'm an A/C man/electrician by trade, however I lucked into a contract with the railroad to remove 40 miles of the abandoned telegraph wiring/power lines etc. Several hundred pounds/tons of pure copper was accumulated which made everything worthwhile back when the copper price was peaking last year... Now I find myself with tons (literally) of the clad and as stingy as I am I just cant stand seeing all that copper going to the scrapyard at steel prices. :roll: So I'm on a mission to succeed..

Basically what I need is advice and/or opinions from the pros here onsite on which way you would tackle this project.

Over the past year I've experimented with electrolosis cells, AR and accumulated a pretty good list of supplies, acids etc (including Hoke's book), however I wouldn't want to waste a lot of time going down the wrong path when there's so many brilliant minds on this site that could possibly put me on the right road..

Thanks for any help

Alan

 

[Oz]

If you have tons you should be able to find a scrap dealer that will give you full credit.

In my opinion chemical processing will cost more than your copper is worth.

 

[AlanInMo]

Thanks for the opinion Oz, it's not really the money I'm after, it's the experience of actually recovering the copper, unless of course it ends up putting me to far into the red.. :lol: I'm determined to learn as much as I can about the whole precious metals recovery processes.. I'm also a pretty good gold dredger so I think chemistry is a bonus when it comes to refining the poke.. I also built a very large (silica carbide) crucible furnace last year to process a few miles of aluminum wire with great results, while keeping the copper clad in mind.. however, I would really like to get the experience of chemical recovery under my belt..

 

[Anonymous]

the cladding is very thin? seem when I had some al/cu clad the copper was like paper around it.
I think you will loose your shirt trying to recover the copper unless the iron core is very small.


Jim

 

[AlanInMo]

This wire is approximately 1/3 cu 2/3 steel, should be a pretty good yield simply due to the amount of material on hand... Of course I'll do small test runs to determine the approx total of cu after I get a few suggestions on the best process.

 

[Oz]

Even if you have 33% copper I personally see no way for you to come out ahead by trying to separate the metals chemically. As James pointed out it is probably only a thin copper coating to take advantage of the skin effect of high voltage.

Now if it is education you seek keep 2 meters to learn on and sell the rest. Doing it yourself I am reasonably certain you are beating a dead horse.

I would enjoy being proven wrong.

 

[qst42know]

Don't forget to bring a copy of your contract with the RR. From what I've heard it's a Federal offence to scrap RR junk without it.

 

[LeftyTheBandit]

Edited: Removed negligent information. I apologize for my off topic commentary.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

I wouldn't bother processing the clad wire, not worth the effort from what I have seen and experienced. I don't think the clad will be as thick as you think it will be since there is only a thin coating needed for the electricity to flow thru the wire. Remember the electricity flows on the outside not thru the wire so only a thin clad necessary.

 

[Palladium]

When i use to build recycling furnaces i ran a test batch of copper clad steel lighting rods like they use on top of buildings. I had a client who produced about 10 tons a month waste from the manufacturing process. I ran about 20 tons ( truck load ).
Cost more gas than we made profit and Nat. gas was cheap then. I ran them through a Sweat furnace which separates metals based on their melting temp. I think they were 2-3 % copper by weight.

 

[LeftyTheBandit]

What do they get 12'-18' per car. Not really worth the risk in my eyes but neither is being a thief.

Edited: Removed negligent information I originally posted. I apologize for my off topic commentary.

 

[Harold_V]

This is a bit off the wall, so follow my thoughts closely, otherwise I'll appear to be one of the lunatics that post garbage that would best not be posted.

A full recovery of the copper could be achieved by using the wire to cement silver. The process would go like this:

Silver nitrate solution would have the (bare and clean) wire introduced, but not enough to effect a full recovery of the contained silver. The exposed copper would cement silver, as would the steel core, which would also cement copper. It, in turn, would cement silver. If a shortage was provided, the vast majority of the silver nitrate would have been cemented by the introduced wire, which would be totally consumed. The small amount of silver nitrate remaining could be recovered either with copper, or precipitated as a chloride.

The real problem with this process is the resulting copper is of little value on the scrap market, and because iron would have been consumed, the solution will likely be too contaminated to effectively recover the copper electrically.

I'm not convinced the wire is worth the effort.

Harold

 

[Anonymous]

Some might not consider it a bad nights work until they slip and thier arm gets blown off. A guy locally had been stealing the neutral wires from transformer stations for the last few years, last spring they found him laying one the ground with one arm burnt pretty much off. They did not send him to jail since he can barely walk and has limited motor skills. He got it because he slipped and his cutters broke the plane of the minimum distance from the high voltage transmission lines. Plus this was a new station serving industrial customers so it did not step down to the normal 240. I do not know what the secoundary voltage is, heck it may even be local transmission voltage something line 11k. A guy at the local plant got electrocuted because he tried to check for voltage with a hand held volt meter on the same kind of substation, but this one is servicing a steel mill.

Also, If there is trouble that ground could be carrying current and when you cut it you get one nasty surprise.

So my thaughts are this is never a goods night work.

Also do the the large amount of power available and the large capacitance of the lines themselves the instantanious current available when you short the circuit with your body is vertually infinate.


Jim

 

[patnor1011]

heh... Might not be a bad night's work but it could be a good few nights in federal institution where you will get meal 3 times a day.

 

[Gold Trail]

soumds like you need to find an honest scrap buyer. that wire at 33% cu should at MINIMUM be bought at what we call "copper Bearing" material .

Friday's price on my scale was 0.15 / lb for this type of material.

FYI copper bearing also inclues things like electric motors, transformers, power supplies, ribbon wire, coax cable, low grade cicuit boards, etc.


Ryan

 

[AlanInMo]

Apparently my first thread here @ GRF has drawn some attention.. :lol: Everything from "it's not worth it" to "copper thieves" lol

Here's a new scenario for the "it's not worth it" guys..

Obama decides that he wants to create a giant likeness of himself, a statue, as tall as the Sears building in Chicago, in solid copper, (Kind of like a giant solid chocolate Easter Bunny)! :shock: This creates a worldwide shortage of cu, the price skyrockets to $500 lb.. Now with this in mind, what would be the best process to recover the cu? 8)

You see it's not really about the money, to me it's all about proving that it can be done.. Profit would be a bonus of course.. :lol:

In reply to the "copper thieves" guys... :mrgreen:

Yes, you're right, I learned the hard way about carrying a copy of the contract to the work site.. After removing the first mile, poles included, my crew found themselves face to face with the local sheriffs department after an un-informed engineer called to report a theft in process.. lmao I said to the sheriff (while handing him a copy of the contract) " do you honestly think we would be out here in broad daylight, with yellow flashing lights, orange vests and huge equipment if we weren't authorized?" He (along with his deputies) hesitated for a moment, smiled, then retreated.. :lol:

Special thanks to Harold_V for the chemical input...

 

[butcher]

In a small town next to us, somebody removed miles of wire in broad daylight, I suppose they looked ligitamate to people driving by, these thieves not only put themselve's at risk, but also people who are depending on the wire for services or life support.
how would they like it if they had a daughter dying of a heart attack, and could not call ambulance because some idiot wanted a few penny's of copper and cut a phone line?
instead of making his penny's honestly.
they are so stupid they probably just waste them penny's anyway, so even they do not profit.
It just hurts everyone.