Chemical recovering gold from sodium cyanide.?

[Lino1406]

My position is that if you already have it, meaning you are a chemist and have the adequate approvals, you can deal with it. Otherwise do not enter into it.

 

[anachronism]

To be perfectly Frank, I think that since people are beginning to throw eco-goldex around like sugar without realising exactly that they are playing with this IS the time to have an open and informed discussion.

 

[g_axelsson]

I'm all for an open discussion. As stated above, when people doesn't understand what they are doing they will experiment. Better to have an exhaustive discussion with security procedures and how to destroy the cyanide after the gold is recovered.

Göran

 

[upcyclist]

I think a new approach might make sense, otherwise cyanide might appear to be some sort of Forbidden Fruit.

I think a lot of the concerns from Barren's 6 items can be at least mitigated with this one:

7. Take responsibility for your actions.

If we speak clearly about the dangers of cyanide, at least some of that should leak through translation software (or skills). Ditto for people who skim these threads. I know this is a personal stance (I'm not trying to convince others), but if I hand someone a knife after telling them it's sharp and know they understand what can happen with sharp things, and they cut themselves or someone else, that's on them. There's some nuance to that, but I don't think this is the right place to get into that here.

We deal with a number of dangerous substances here--both materially and in our discussions, and I think we do a good job of warning others. These warnings are why I still don't mess with cyanide unless I know it's actually the best tool for the job. Those warnings are also why all of my PGMs are still sitting in the bottom of my stockpot. Heck, it's part of the reason I haven't even set up an electrolytic cell yet.

 

[anachronism]

Agreed

I'd really welcome the discussion as there are certain parts of the chemistry of the ferrocyanide that I would like to be 100% sure on. I think I'm pretty much "there" if that makes sense with regards to the UV breaking the bond between the 6 CN- ions around the Fe atom and thereby freeing them for the leach process however certain things still could use some clarity. For example the exact applicational differences between the Ferri and Ferro cyanides beyond the chemical formulae.

Did you want to make a thread Goran then we can all pitch in?

Jon

 

[4metals]

I think all cyanides should be discussed. However in the US (and likely the UK) Cyanide sets off alarms with environmental agencies and the Ferrocyanides do not, for that simple reason a distinction has value here.

I know the metal finishing forums have discussed cyanide solutions for years. Refining, as does any chemical process, requires some responsibility to be taken by the user. It is our responsibility to post and critique posts, to get the proper information out there to our members.

 

[g_axelsson]

What do you all think about starting a major thread for cyanide where we give references to resources and other major threads. Then we start a number of threads for different aspects of the cyanide process.

I suggest the following threads :

- Cyanide main thread : Contains references to documents and other major threads with a first post edited to add links when something new appears.

And the following minor threads :
- Cyanide destruction
- Cyanide equipment
- Cyanide leaching
- Cyanide legality
- Cyanide safety
- Cyanide storage
- Cyanide toxicity
- Cyanide waste
- Recovery of metals from cyanide solution

Anything missing or to remove?

This is a huge area and there are several books written on the subject. For example the books at the internet archive.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Cyanide+process%22
And this document from the EPA about cyanide handling in plating business.
https://cfpub.epa.gov/si/si_public_record_Report.cfm?dirEntryID=65824

Göran

 

[anachronism]

Safety and toxicity could be combined.
Waste and destruction too.

Other than that, it looks pretty good.

 

[jeneje]

Members, i want to clarify my position in this thread. It has nothing to do with Cyanide itself, but the giving of advice by PM. I can't speak for other Nations or States in the US, but here in Tennessee if you give advice to a person and it causes injury or death of that person, and if the law can prove it you can be charged with a crime.

This is a true story, last Friday night my friend's boyfriend and his running buddy was out drinking. By 2:00 AM they were ripped, they did make it to the house however, John told my friend to take his buddy home, she told him where to go and went to bed.

Around 3:00 AM John decided to take his buddy home. They got stopped by the law and he got charged with DUI and his buddy for( PD) public drunkenness. The law took the car and locked them up as one would expect. Well, the car they drive belongs to my friend and it was registered in her name. althought she was not with them, nor was she drinking. The next morning the County Sheriff came to her home and arrested her for drunk driving.

The point here is this, the forum has disclaimers to protect members and the owner from being liable for information posted in open forum. Giving advice to other members by PM's may or may not be covered by the disclaimer here.

It is up to each member whether they choose to take such a chance and it was NOT my place to interfere in those members activities. Jon, I apologize for my comments to you. My ONLY concern was the health and welfare of the OP, as this was his first post.

Ken

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I'd suggest adding a section on potassium ferrocyanide vs. eco-goldex. "Eco-goldex" sounds like an ecologically safe process, but it's just a pricey ferrocyanide leach.

Most members probably can't get their hands on sodium or potassium cyanide. Ferrocyanide is a workaround like some of the other processes we discuss.

Dave

 

[upcyclist]

What do you all think about starting a major thread for cyanide where we give references to resources and other major threads. Then we start a number of threads for different aspects of the cyanide process.

I suggest the following threads :

- Cyanide main thread : Contains references to documents and other major threads with a first post edited to add links when something new appears.

And the following minor threads :
- Cyanide destruction
- Cyanide equipment
- Cyanide leaching
- Cyanide legality
- Cyanide safety
- Cyanide storage
- Cyanide toxicity
- Cyanide waste
- Recovery of metals from cyanide solution

Question for ya Göran: What do you mean when you say threads? Are you talking about creating and maintaining posts? Subtopics? What you posted above is a great outline for organization, but I think they would work better as sections of a wiki page (coughGRWcough) than threads. Once you're in a forum, there really is no organization except for the Topics & Subtopics. People will post their thoughts/ideas/problems, and we'll discuss.

Even if we did a subtopic (Processes: Chemical Processes: Cyanide), so many posts would fall outside of it because often the questioner ("What do I do with these pins?") doesn't know that one possible answer is a cyanide process. Such a post would continue with the pros & cons of cyanide vs. other methods.

Now, if we're talking a master thread/post in The Library, that could work well. That would be a moderator-curated thread (or set of threads as you proposed above).

Or maybe I'm just not getting your groove?

 

[anachronism]

Ken

Apology accepted. Let's turn this whole thing into a positive.

Jon

 

[g_axelsson]

Ahemmm... what a coincidence that there is a similar list on http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Cyanide :mrgreen:

With a thread I mean like this thread. No new sections or subsections are needed. By starting each thread with an "intro and index"-post we can always go back and edit it to put links in to the other threads. That way we only need to keep track of the main thread. It can be put in the library when it is complete.

Göran

 

[nickvc]

I personally feel that as this ferrocyanide and its various forms is fairly easily available that we would be remiss not to cover the safety aspects and also the safe and legal disposal of it, as I have stated many times we are under the spotlight of government agencies so facing the potential dangers to the users, other people and animals and the environment is almost mandatory now, I am also fairly certain that this material will become a controlled substance within a fairly short time especially if we have any disasters or deaths, but in the meantime we need to be seen to be doing our utmost to protect where and when we can.

 

[kurtak]

What do you all think about starting a major thread for cyanide where we give references to resources and other major threads. Then we start a number of threads for different aspects of the cyanide process.

I suggest the following threads :

- Cyanide main thread : Contains references to documents and other major threads with a first post edited to add links when something new appears.

And the following minor threads :
- Cyanide destruction
- Cyanide equipment
- Cyanide leaching
- Cyanide legality
- Cyanide safety
- Cyanide storage
- Cyanide toxicity
- Cyanide waste
- Recovery of metals from cyanide solution

Göran

Absolutely - considering the safety issue of working with cyanide & the fact that there has been some discussion of it already - but - much of that discussion scattered here & there with "bits" of info "here & there" --- I think (as others have also voiced) that a thread specific to cyanide is the prudent thing to do

Whether as A thread the covers all the above suggestions - or - broke into threads pertaining to each aspect doesn't really matter --- the important thing is that we cover all aspects as a matter of prudence to provide complete information on working with cyanide in away that it can be referenced &/or research as a "complete" information

Threads - as a result of on going discussion tend to get cluttered (as has this one) so A thread & or multiple threads could then be edited &/or linked for quick reference through the Library as a "Library Topic"

I can't open the discussion as I have never worked with it - so will have to leave to those that have - I am certainly interested though

Kurt

 

[4metals]

I think the first post in the series should be to open a few eyes and help focus on safety and that would be Cyanide and why it can kill you. And then we can explain the path of toxicity and some safety, and then get into using it for recovery.

I will start a thread when I get home this weekend.

 

[autumnwillow]

Make the cyanide part of the forum private.
Imagine it being public, a mess, just a mess and lives being at stake. If the cyanide forum should be opened to public it should be on how to handle it and how to treat the wastes. Not on how to use it. They need to know well first how to handle and dispose of it first.

Not sure but I think a member should pay for a test, done live (maybe thru chat?) and answer a few cyanide related questions. If he passes then off he can access the subforum. If not he better do his research first as to how to handle cyanide. It is fairly available in textbooks and search engines.

People who work with cyanide should be very responsible.

 

[anachronism]

People seem to have this un-reasoned fear of cyanide, whilst they are happy to work around hot concentrated sulphuric acid, or deal with nitric acid and AR without fume hoods. Make no mistake- lives are at risk with all the other processes we use and people should not lose sight of that.

I agree that if people are stupid enough to ignore the safety factors involved with the above, then they will avoid them with cyanide. But what do we do?

Keeping people in ignorance has never worked out well in any historical context.

 

[autumnwillow]

Nitric, AR and sulfuric will injure you or kill you slowly.

Cyanide poisoning will kill you quick. And not all hospitals are equipped with its antidote.

Do not compare these common acids used for refining with cyanide.

 

[patnor1011]

Nitric, AR and sulfuric will injure you or kill you slowly.

Cyanide poisoning will kill you quick. And not all hospitals are equipped with its antidote.

Do not compare these common acids used for refining with cyanide.

You may be surprised to hear that but cyanide is more common in recovery&refining than what you call "common acids used for refining".
Slowly or quick (killing) is not an argument.
But I do agree - If you're afraid of wolves, don't go to the woods.