It sure does show some numbers, but most of the times quite away from reality. And if it isn´t specifically callibrated for some matrix, results are just informative. For jeweller, who have it callibrated for karat, it is more than sufficient. Outside of this, I won´t let anyone calculate the value of my material relying on numbers from this instrument.
I am with you 100% on the validity of the XRF gun. I know from experience that they are usually wrong. I made the mistake on this forum about a year or so ago saying that I had got paid over $400 for silver from busbars in a conn organ and although I did get paid that it was brought to my attention from members that it was a mistake and at first I was upset but thought about it and realized they were in fact right. Your remark about the rhodium is also true I ended up taking the loss on the rhodium and the Ruthenium. See I had mailed them to a refinery in Pennsylvania. Garfield refinery to be precise and I had made the mistake of not cutting off the legs of the relays because the way they make them is they have a wire that is a mixture of iron and nickel and they flatten the end of it and sputter the precious metals in that so even with trimming them down to only the precious metals part it is still 50% trash as far as refining it and we all know that nitric is expensive and it costs to use it so I altogether sent them 37 troy ounces total and they would of had to burn off about 33 ounces to get like 4.5 ounces of precious metals so they sent it back to me and it was fine because they lied about being able to get the rhodium out when they did their assay they didn't even mention the rhodium so I went with the previous refinery that my local jeweler uses. I had sent some to them before and there is a picture of the receipt from them but it was 350 grams and the legs were still attached and I only did that at the time to see what I had because it was only a fraction of what I had but I wanted an idea of what I had in terms of cash and if you look at it they paid me for the gold palladium and platinum but mention in a note that there in fact was rhodium and ruthenium. I'm going to get more of these relays next week I'll post the receipt from them when I get paid it will be next week sometimeI never seen ones with Pd inner layer between gold and Rh. But who knows, I have seen far more wild things
Nice find, only thing left is to find buyer who will pay OK rate for the Rh content, as this is always an issue, at least where I live. As this material does not usually hold that much Rh in terms of % or g/kg. But significant portion of value is in fact in the Rh.
PS: Do not rely on the reading of that crappy yellow machine
Yep, always gotta cut as much junk metal off as possible for these things. Drops the cost of refining and boosts the yield.
Yeah I was all excited when they had sent me a email because I thought I was getting paid and then I was bummed out big time. I was mad at myself because I knew better. These relays were really cool but a lot of work and very tedious work at that but I got them figured out as far as how much is there down to the gram. That was my reason for only sending a little bit at first so that I can calculate what I had by what they paid me. I just wish I had come into them last year when rhodium was $29,000 an ounce and palladium was $2,500 and not $1,500 although gold is the highest it's been but if rhodium was that much I would've done whatever it took to find a refinery to pay me on it. One thing that don't make sense to me is why they don't pay on it when it is there obviously. It's not like it disappeared and I'm sure that they don't just trash it. It's kind of messed up. I understand that it is like the hardest to refine but if they got the other metals out then it's there right I don't understand that but I'm sure there's a reason other from them just ripping people off
How do I inbox you I have some also that are the same green glass but a lot bigger also but nothing like the numbers or weight of the others. I'm going to be getting a lot more when I get paid which will be next week sometime I was thinking of selling them onlineI have a lot of them Reed switches you have, plus I have some that are very much longer, but have to test them, inbox me and we can talk !
Rob, Please use commas, points and line shift.
Ruthenium is relatively unwanted element, still noble metal, but hardly any refinery would pay anything for Ru. And there are reasons why.
Ruthenium is relatively unwanted element, still noble metal, but hardly any refinery would pay anything for Ru. And there are reasons why.
Second, I have serious doubts there is actually any Ru in the reed relays contacts, and I think it is only an "imagination" of the machine.
I am waiting forward to the receipt, as I am curious what %tage you get on this combination of PMs. Wishing luck
Interesting.
Orvi, since you are into hard science
I have some experience with spectroscopy. Basically, the light/radiation bounces off the substance being tested, and some wavelengths are absorbed while others are not. The pattern of wavelengths which bounce back to the detector and their intensity are characteristic for each type of substance.Orvi, since you are into hard science
Is there a place where we can find spectra's with information where they come from?
Then it might give more sense, to wat these XRF's see and how they decide what they think is in there.
Orvi, since you are into hard science
Is there a place where we can find spectra's with information where they come from?
Then it might give more sense, to wat these XRF's see and how they decide what they think is in there.
For Yggdrasil frist question, I do not have experience, but basically, fluorescent spectra of various pure elements is easily accessible - just put into Google "XRF spectra of -element-" and in the first pictures, it will give you something like this:
or Himalayas Then factor in the scattering of the matrix, let´s say you do not have metallic sample, but only som light matrix powder... Like grinded cat or our favourite "rhodium ore" and I think that I am not competent enough in this field to tell you how it really is Long story short, upon crash with light elements (generally magnesium and lower), good portion of X-rays aren´t absorbed to kick electrons, but as matrix is light, they simply fly through it and are bent. This cause alteration of the original set of wavelengths, and you can already feel where it is going I was more thinking of the theoretical peaks of pure element so we more easily can describe why most Ir and Rh readings in ore is likely wrong.For Yggdrasil frist question, I do not have experience, but basically, fluorescent spectra of various pure elements is easily accessible - just put into Google "XRF spectra of -element-" and in the first pictures, it will give you something like this:
http://www.xrfresearch.com/xrf-spectrum-gold/
Then imagine having 10 elements alltogether, and it starts to look like we use to call "forest of peaks"
And yay !! You created PGM ore ! Because the poor machine is only that good how we built it. And callibrated it.
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Alondro nicely sumed up how it works. Yes, basically, XRF stand for X - Ray Fluorescence. Fluorescence means the light emitted by irradiation with light of another wavelength. Similarly to fluorescent colours, which glow under UV light ("blacklight", for example in the night clubs). This time, the material is irradiated with X-rays, which are very high energy photons, compared to say regular visible light. This cause electrons with same energy levels as the source of radiation to be kicked from their orbitals - and this is accompanied with that fluorescence.
When electron bounces back to lower energy state, it gives off that extra energy away as photon of lower energy - and XRF detects this emitted radiation.
Since every element has different bounding energies for it´s electrons, we can relatively accurately tell, which elements are present, and in what quantities/ratios.
Of course, there is this "scattering" issue with light matrix samples. But this is another chapter
And yeah, MS is much more accurate in precise determination of not only elements themselves, but even their isotopes.
For this the "scattering thing" is to blame the most, in my opinion. You can very easily search the pure elements spectra (that same site, but go with Google search for pictures).
I have the green ones and some very long ones from organs, not sure what the long have as far as PM's
