Reed relays

[Rob666]

Wow I'm impressed you really know your shit maybe you can help me with my problem right now. I was expecting a check today for about $5000 and basically I got ripped off I know it but I don't know if it's the jeweler or the refinery I used this same refinery and jeweler first off and didn't get much but I didn't give them much. I just wanted to be able to calculate what I had so I basically gave them a sample if you will and it was very concentrated with iron and nickel. This is because they get a wire of that allot and they will flatten the end of it and sputter the pms on to it so even with cutting off all the crap it is still put on a wire that is a nickel iron alloy that makes up 50% of the weight but I did this to 9 troy ounces of the material and so only 4.5 was good material plus I had 700 grams of material that I had sent the same type to the same refinery at half that weight and was paid $300 now they say my. Whole lot was only worth $300 and they said it only contained gold. I need to find out which refinery it was in Texas because of my jeweler ripped me off and doctored the receipt they would be able to tell me I am not sure which one but I got ripped off by one of them and what makes me mad is that they are both financially stable and I'm the complete opposite and finding that was like finding a treasure as stupid as that sounds and I put a lot of man hours into it getting it ready and I feel just completely victimized right now as stupid as that sounds. And I know that I'm not wrong I take many pictures and I have a trove of evidence if it were to ever get to that which I know it won't because the price of having an attorney is a lot more than $5000 or $4,700 to be exact. I'm trying to punctuate more. It's not that I don't know how, I just chose not to for soany years and got used to it and so now I forget sometimes. So I apologize if reading this is like reading the longest run on sentence you have ever read. I'm so disappointed right now.

 

[orvi]

You need to specifically ask and assure about payable metals. Now it is too late.

In my cases, Rh comprised few g per kg of this kind of material. If you don´t melt it and then measure the PM content, results of XRF are just qualitative, saying nothing about actual metal content.
Typically, with this type of material in quantity reasonable procedure can be like this:

-representative sample is pulled out (this is whole science, if you want to do it right)
-sample is weight and melted to form homogenous melt
-metal is either poured or left to solidify in the crucible
-metal bead/dore is cleaned from dross
-this is then either drilled or sawed/cracked in half to reveal fresh metal surface
-this freshly revealed surface or shavings from drilling are then shot with XRF to determine precious metal content
-then, based on the actual number and content of PMs, you are paid deposit for PMs, and material is actually refined (this can take some time) and then you are paid the difference against real yield.
Results of this "pro-forma" assay usually aren´t far away from reality. I have done hundreds of these melt "pseudo-assays", and generally, results were +- 5% from real lot.
It all mainly depends on your ability to pull out representative sample from the lot, which can be very difficult from mixed lots of wildly different grades, shapes and metal content. As I said, this is basically whole science field - how to representatively sample one semi-truck load of boards for example...
I do not think you were ripped off thousands dollars, but maybe few hundred bucks, yes. If they did not paid the Rh.

 

[Rob666]

Wow I'm impressed you really know your shit maybe you can help me with my problem right now. I was expecting a check today for about $5000 and basically I got ripped off I know it but I don't know if it's the jeweler or the refinery I used this same refinery and jeweler first off and didn't get much but I didn't give them much. I just wanted to be able to calculate what I had so I basically gave them a sample if you will and it was very concentrated with iron and nickel. This is because they get a wire of that allot and they will flatten the end of it and sputter the pms on to it so even with trimming all the bad stuff off 50% of the final weight before refining is trash and the determination that it contained rhodium and ruthenium in the above receipt was determined not through an XRF gun but from actually processing the material. The issue I'm having now is that the same refinery in Texas processed double the amount from the receipt again of the same material and not only that but there was also 9 troy ounces of material that I had cut off the legs or bad material so that only 50% of that 9 troy ounces was bad so there would be 4.5 ounces of good material and from the receipt above it seemed like the distribution of palladium, platinum, and gold was about equal and it makes sense because I had sent it to another refinery in Philadelphia that sent it back to me but they explained it wasn't because it didn't have precious metals but because the amount of nitric would be too much for them to profit. But they provided a receipt from their assay and they determined it to be worth $4,700 which totally was in line with the numbers I came up with. So after they sent it back I worked on it and came up with the 9 troy ounces of it trimmed out. But I added the 700 grams of it not trimmed out because my jeweler said it would be fine so I'm totally confused when they say now that it only had gold and only $300 when before they paid out for the same exact material to have platinum palladium and gold so either the refinery ripped me off or my jeweler did and just typed out a fake receipt to give me. That wouldn't be hard at all. He works for a company that let me piggyback off them to get it refined and I totally respect the company and don't want to compromise their dealings with the mystery refinery in Texas. My next step is for me to find this company and see what they have to say because if they say that the receipt is not the one they provided I'm going to flip and there will be an epic encounter with the guy when I go in there and demand my money. Either way the fact that a totally different refinery gave me an assay on the same material to be worth $4,700 and then they say it only had gold and only $300 when they themselves processed half of the same material minus the 9 ounces of trimmed material and paid me for 3 pms and paid $300 for half of what I sent them this time. Regardless this isn't a issue with misreadings of an XRF gun even though I have about 13 pictures of the readings of it and one thing that is the same on all the readings is the 50% of it being nickel and iron and that's the same on all the readings. What proves my case as far as I'm concerned is the missing weight. If they say it only contained gold there is still missing weight. The 4.5 troy ounces that wasn't iron and nickel that obviously was something and weight just doesn't disappear especially precious metals because that's basically impossible right. I hope this in part explains it I know my mom was not understanding me no matter how many times I tried explaining it to her ill show you the receipt from the refinery in Philadelphia that assayed it but sent it back because of the amount of nitric to process it but the same exact material was sent to a different refinery and they said (allegedly) because I didn't go through them personally as a customer I piggy backed off a local jeweler so he could of made a fake receipt and is lying I don't know yet but the same stuff in the receipt I'm going to show you I got back a receipt that said it only contained gold and only $300 at that when they came up with a totally different conclusion from material from the same batch of relays a month or two earlier. I have to now figure out which refinery it actually is and go from there I guess if I don't figure it out within 48 hours my chances of solving it ever are cut in half. That is a pretty funny side joke considering how I really feel right now

 

[Rob666]

You need to specifically ask and assure about payable metals. Now it is too late.

In my cases, Rh comprised few g per kg of this kind of material. If you don´t melt it and then measure the PM content, results of XRF are just qualitative, saying nothing about actual metal content.
Typically, with this type of material in quantity reasonable procedure can be like this:

-representative sample is pulled out (this is whole science, if you want to do it right)
-sample is weight and melted to form homogenous melt
-metal is either poured or left to solidify in the crucible
-metal bead/dore is cleaned from dross
-this is then either drilled or sawed/cracked in half to reveal fresh metal surface
-this freshly revealed surface or shavings from drilling are then shot with XRF to determine precious metal content
-then, based on the actual number and content of PMs, you are paid deposit for PMs, and material is actually refined (this can take some time) and then you are paid the difference against real yield.
Results of this "pro-forma" assay usually aren´t far away from reality. I have done hundreds of these melt "pseudo-assays", and generally, results were +- 5% from real lot.
It all mainly depends on your ability to pull out representative sample from the lot, which can be very difficult from mixed lots of wildly different grades, shapes and metal content. As I said, this is basically whole science field - how to representatively sample one semi-truck load of boards for example...
I do not think you were ripped off thousands dollars, but maybe few hundred bucks, yes. If they did not paid the Rh.

Wow I am really impressed if I sent you like a file of all my pictures from this would you consider looking it over to give me your professional opinion because I am pretty confused and like I said the calculations say that their is 4.5 troy ounces of precious metals that I did not get paid for whether it was gold palladium or platinum is up in the air but from their previous receipt it looks like it is sputtered onto the relays equally or close to it. I knew beforehand that they weren't going to pay on the rhodium so that's no issue I made that sacrifice because I watched the price fall from $12,000 to $6,500 in a matter of a month and I desperately needed some money so I made that sacrifice but your input would help me greatly and I have a feeling after I show you everything I have on it you will agree with me that I was ripped off whether it be the jeweler or the refinery but I am sure that if you tell me otherwise I could let it go because you obviously know what you are talking about I am really impressed and it takes a lot to impress me

 

[Rob666]

There were three different types of material in the batch and I'll show you now the readout on each one from the XRF gun. Only to show you a better understanding what I'm talking about

 

[Rob666]

I have a lot more "evidence" I do realize the XRF gun is not really good evidence I would think that a previous payout from the same refinery that totally contradicts the second one is the best evidence

 

[Yggdrasil]

Wow I'm impressed you really know your shit maybe you can help me with my problem right now. I was expecting a check today for about $5000 and basically I got ripped off I know it but I don't know if it's the jeweler or the refinery I used this same refinery and jeweler first off and didn't get much but I didn't give them much. I just wanted to be able to calculate what I had so I basically gave them a sample if you will and it was very concentrated with iron and nickel. This is because they get a wire of that allot and they will flatten the end of it and sputter the pms on to it so even with trimming all the bad stuff off 50% of the final weight before refining is trash and the determination that it contained rhodium and ruthenium in the above receipt was determined not through an XRF gun but from actually processing the material. The issue I'm having now is that the same refinery in Texas processed double the amount from the receipt again of the same material and not only that but there was also 9 troy ounces of material that I had cut off the legs or bad material so that only 50% of that 9 troy ounces was bad so there would be 4.5 ounces of good material and from the receipt above it seemed like the distribution of palladium, platinum, and gold was about equal and it makes sense because I had sent it to another refinery in Philadelphia that sent it back to me but they explained it wasn't because it didn't have precious metals but because the amount of nitric would be too much for them to profit. But they provided a receipt from their assay and they determined it to be worth $4,700 which totally was in line with the numbers I came up with. So after they sent it back I worked on it and came up with the 9 troy ounces of it trimmed out. But I added the 700 grams of it not trimmed out because my jeweler said it would be fine so I'm totally confused when they say now that it only had gold and only $300 when before they paid out for the same exact material to have platinum palladium and gold so either the refinery ripped me off or my jeweler did and just typed out a fake receipt to give me. That wouldn't be hard at all. He works for a company that let me piggyback off them to get it refined and I totally respect the company and don't want to compromise their dealings with the mystery refinery in Texas. My next step is for me to find this company and see what they have to say because if they say that the receipt is not the one they provided I'm going to flip and there will be an epic encounter with the guy when I go in there and demand my money. Either way the fact that a totally different refinery gave me an assay on the same material to be worth $4,700 and then they say it only had gold and only $300 when they themselves processed half of the same material minus the 9 ounces of trimmed material and paid me for 3 pms and paid $300 for half of what I sent them this time. Regardless this isn't a issue with misreadings of an XRF gun even though I have about 13 pictures of the readings of it and one thing that is the same on all the readings is the 50% of it being nickel and iron and that's the same on all the readings. What proves my case as far as I'm concerned is the missing weight. If they say it only contained gold there is still missing weight. The 4.5 troy ounces that wasn't iron and nickel that obviously was something and weight just doesn't disappear especially precious metals because that's basically impossible right. I hope this in part explains it I know my mom was not understanding me no matter how many times I tried explaining it to her ill show you the receipt from the refinery in Philadelphia that assayed it but sent it back because of the amount of nitric to process it but the same exact material was sent to a different refinery and they said (allegedly) because I didn't go through them personally as a customer I piggy backed off a local jeweler so he could of made a fake receipt and is lying I don't know yet but the same stuff in the receipt I'm going to show you I got back a receipt that said it only contained gold and only $300 at that when they came up with a totally different conclusion from material from the same batch of relays a month or two earlier. I have to now figure out which refinery it actually is and go from there I guess if I don't figure it out within 48 hours my chances of solving it ever are cut in half. That is a pretty funny side joke considering how I really feel right now

Unless you learn how to use line breaks I'm not even considering to read this stuff.
How are you even hoping for help with this kind of text.

Pleas use the enter key at the end of each sentence.

 

[Yggdrasil]

There were three different types of material in the batch and I'll show you now the readout on each one from the XRF gun. Only to show you a better understanding what I'm talking about

These are not assays per se, they are XRF measurements.
Precision and such of measuring this kind of material is not my expertise.
But according to previous postings it is not ideal with a loose mass of objects.
Anyway it measures only the surface of the material.

 

[Rob666]

I apologize for not using correct punctuation. I am working on fixing this issue but just like anything it is something that I recently realized was a problem and just like with anything, miracles don't occur overnight.
I am just really upset by this right now and I know from experience when I get upset I will be all over the place in my writing. It shows big-time and I apologize

 

[Yggdrasil]

I apologize for not using correct punctuation. I am working on fixing this issue but just like anything it is something that I recently realized was a problem and just like with anything, miracles don't occur overnight.
I am just really upset by this right now and I know from experience when I get upset I will be all over the place in my writing. It shows big-time and I apologize

Look at your text again, and try to read it.
The lack punctuation and commas can be overcome, but use your enter key at the end of each sentence so it breaks up, please.

 

[Rob666]

Ok I will right now .

 

[nickton]

Did the refinery ever send you the $6000? What exactly was it for anyway?

 

[nickton]

You people are very hard to read.

 

[Rob666]

You people are very hard to read.

Did the refinery ever send you the $6000? What exactly was it for anyway?

Well it's kind of a long story and I'm still trying to figure out who burned me.
I before lots of people know that in the business of precious metals and refining there are a lot of misunderstandings and especially with gold. It is sometimes not what it seems.
So I had a bunch of these relays and it took me weeks to find the time to get them so that they can be refined and my local jeweler has an XRF gun so I took them there to test and sure enough it came back as having Gold, Platinum, Palladium, Ruthenium, and Rhodium, but I know from experience it ain't always what it says and they are notorious for reading it wrong especially with material that is plated .
So what I did was I piggybacked off their weekly shipment to see if it was legit and sure enough they paid me for Palladium, Gold, and Platinum. Not the Rhodium or Ruthenium but they made a side note saying it contained a high amount of nickel and iron and that it also had Rhodium and Ruthenium. I did a lot of research on them and it's basically two wires that are iron and nickel alloy and they flatten the ends and sputter the precious metals on the flattened ends and then enclose it in glass.

Well I didn't get paid much from that especially because I didn't trim the part of the wire that doesn't contain precious metals and if you look at the pictures it makes up for a lot of the weight the part that is flattened is a fifth of the total weight but I did that entirely to 1 see if they actually contained precious metals and 2 so I could calculate how much money I had altogether cause that was just a fraction.

I was really wanting to get paid for the rhodium so I went elsewhere and sent what I had to a refinery in Philadelphia. And I feel stupid because I got lazy and didn't take the legs or the part the wire that didn't contain the precious metals off so they sent them back to me and I realized myistake. They would of had to burn through 33 troy ounces to get 4.5 ounces of precious metals and I don't know if I mentioned but the percentage of each precious metal was about equal so they sent me an assay of the material and they said that I had about $4,700 there but it was just too much metal to burn through for them to profit

So fast forward about a couple weeks and I saw the price of rhodium drop big time from $12,000 to $6,500 and I desperately needed money for bills so I just went with the first refinery and said to hell with the rhodium. Well now the jeweler that I went through gives me a receipt for $300 and is saying that they said there was only gold and only $300 at that when I calculated from the previous receipt and I should of had 35 grams of gold as well as 35 grams of palladium and 35 of platinum and numbers don't lie people lie. And the material is the same material that they previously refined and had au pd and pt so I'm really not in a good place right now I know for sure that either my jeweler or the refinery burned me but don't know which one yet. What makes it complicated is I didn't go through them personally so I don't even know what refinery yet just that it is in Texas. I'm investigating that tonight

 

[Yggdrasil]

Well it's kind of a long story and I'm still trying to figure out who burned me.
I before lots of people know that in the business of precious metals and refining there are a lot of misunderstandings and especially with gold. It is sometimes not what it seems.
So I had a bunch of these relays and it took me weeks to find the time to get them so that they can be refined and my local jeweler has an XRF gun so I took them there to test and sure enough it came back as having Gold, Platinum, Palladium, Ruthenium, and Rhodium, but I know from experience it ain't always what it says and they are notorious for reading it wrong especially with material that is plated .
So what I did was I piggybacked off their weekly shipment to see if it was legit and sure enough they paid me for Palladium, Gold, and Platinum. Not the Rhodium or Ruthenium but they made a side note saying it contained a high amount of nickel and iron and that it also had Rhodium and Ruthenium. I did a lot of research on them and it's basically two wires that are iron and nickel alloy and they flatten the ends and sputter the precious metals on the flattened ends and then enclose it in glass.

Well I didn't get paid much from that especially because I didn't trim the part of the wire that doesn't contain precious metals and if you look at the pictures it makes up for a lot of the weight the part that is flattened is a fifth of the total weight but I did that entirely to 1 see if they actually contained precious metals and 2 so I could calculate how much money I had altogether cause that was just a fraction.

I was really wanting to get paid for the rhodium so I went elsewhere and sent what I had to a refinery in Philadelphia. And I feel stupid because I got lazy and didn't take the legs or the part the wire that didn't contain the precious metals off so they sent them back to me and I realized myistake. They would of had to burn through 33 troy ounces to get 4.5 ounces of precious metals and I don't know if I mentioned but the percentage of each precious metal was about equal so they sent me an assay of the material and they said that I had about $4,700 there but it was just too much metal to burn through for them to profit

So fast forward about a couple weeks and I saw the price of rhodium drop big time from $12,000 to $6,500 and I desperately needed money for bills so I just went with the first refinery and said to hell with the rhodium. Well now the jeweler that I went through gives me a receipt for $300 and is saying that they said there was only gold and only $300 at that when I calculated from the previous receipt and I should of had 35 grams of gold as well as 35 grams of palladium and 35 of platinum and numbers don't lie people lie. And the material is the same material that they previously refined and had au pd and pt so I'm really not in a good place right now I know for sure that either my jeweler or the refinery burned me but don't know which one yet. What makes it complicated is I didn't go through them personally so I don't even know what refinery yet just that it is in Texas. I'm investigating that tonight

Thanks Rob, much easier to read now, there is still room for improvement, but no problem.
If you read through Orvi's posts you will see how he struggled to increase the concentration of Rhodium so he could get payed for it.
Refineries do not pay for Rhodium unless it has at least a certain percentage.
The other part seem strange though, that has to be taken with the jeweler since he was the one sending it.
Unless you can talk to the refinery directly, but I doubt they will discuss transactions with a third party.
So you are basically left with one option, the jeweler.

 

[Rob666]

Thanks Rob, much easier to read now, there is still room for improvement, but no problem.
If you read through Orvi's posts you will see how he struggled to increase the concentration of Rhodium so he could get payed for it.
Refineries do not pay for Rhodium unless it has at least a certain percentage.
The other part seem strange though, that has to be taken with the jeweler since he was the one sending it.
Unless you can talk to the refinery directly, but I doubt they will discuss transactions with a third party.
So you are basically left with one option, the jeweler.

Thank you! I'm trying to improve and I appreciate you calling me out on that. I have had this ignorant attitude for years now that I didn't punctuate because I didn't feel like it, and that is wrong in so many ways.
I just hate that it took this long for someone to make me snap and realize that.
You are right about the jeweler and 2 red flags is that the receipt he gave me has a box around the header. The same box that appears when you edit a document and it's like he didn't press enter or finalize it so that it disappears. Also another one is the date. It says that they squared up on April 28th I believe or somewhere close to that but didn't call me with the information until about 4 or 5 days later. It just sucks because I am doing really bad right now with housing and my health and I needed that money and whichever one it was doesn't matter really because they are both wealthy or not wealthy but are doing a lot better than me and I'm just asking why. And let's say there was no precious metal then why did the same company pay me for the 3 pms being au,pt,and pd in a earlier transaction it doesn't make sense and the other company in Philadelphia was a little off on the numbers I came up with but not by much

 

[Rob666]

If

Thank you! I'm trying to improve and I appreciate you calling me out on that. I have had this ignorant attitude for years now that I didn't punctuate because I didn't feel like it, and that is wrong in so many ways.
I just hate that it took this long for someone to make me snap and realize that.
You are right about the jeweler and 2 red flags is that the receipt he gave me has a box around the header. The same box that appears when you edit a document and it's like he didn't press enter or finalize it so that it disappears. Also another one is the date. It says that they squared up on April 28th I believe or somewhere close to that but didn't call me with the information until about 4 or 5 days later. It just sucks because I am doing really bad right now with housing and my health and I needed that money and whichever one it was doesn't matter really because they are both wealthy or not wealthy but are doing a lot better than me and I'm just asking why. And let's say there was no precious metal then why did the same company pay me for the 3 pms being au,pt,and pd in a earlier transaction it doesn't make sense and the other company in Philadelphia was a little off on the numbers I came up with but not by much

I just now thought of a possible motive though. Remember about a year or two ago my post about a massive amount of silver in a conn organ.
This is a very good site because like yourself there are many knowledgeable members and it was brought to my attention then that the XRF guns are notorious for misreading heavy plate as solid.
And I remember I got real defensive right away because ....well I was proud in a sense and it kind of hurt my feelings and I took it as everybody was calling me a liar and so I thought good and hard and dis some research and realized that in fact there was no possible way that the drawbars or busbars would be solid silver.
I'm going to see if I still have the picture of the readout but it was reading 97% silver and they ended up paying me for a little over a kilo or 25 ounces of silver so maybe this was a little payback.
If it was that would be pretty messed up because it was an honest mistake on both our parts I didn't know I went to them to test it and it's their gun that determined that and I would think that they would know that and wouldn't be so vindictive. It doesn't make sense because they do a lot of business and have a good reputation