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Electrochemistry Rusty old tool how can I deal with it.

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butcher

In Remembrance, Nov. 2023
Supporting Member
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I got an email from a member who had a rust tool and was asking how could he deal with it what acid would dissolve rust.

I wish you would ask these questions on open forum.
Others may be able to add to the answer, or someone else may be helped by the question.



There are two types of rust, iron oxide's, black rust, and red rust, the red rust cannot be converted back to metal easily, the black rust can, be converted back to metal with electrolysis.

Rust several ways to deal with it sand it away to bare metal and treat it with oil or paint, or lacquer, the metal to protect it from further oxidation.

Dissolve the rust in phosphoric acid (Navel Jelly is a good gel type product with phosphoric acid that works very well), phosphoric acid will dissolve the rust, and leave a coating of oxidized iron phosphate (after a neutralizing wash), this is kind of like bluing for a gun the oxidation layer helps to somewhat protect the iron from further oxidation.

Another option is using electrolysis, this will can convert some of the black rust back to metal, the red rust is too far gone, this can be used for antiques (they also use something like this for other metals like silver found in the ocean from Spanish ship wrecks), the rusted iron tool is in the electrolytic cell, as the cathode, a sacrificial bar of iron metal is used as anode (an Iron horseshoe, railroad iron spike, rebar, transformer iron laminates will work for the anode), the electrolyte can be baking soda, or sodium carbonate also called soda ash or washing soda which can be found in automatic dishwasher soap), a twelve volt battery charger will work for a power supply.

http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=539&q=rust%20removal%20electrolisis&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw&ei=dub0UM63M6iMiALDu4GgAg

P.S I did not tell him that HCl will also dissolve rust, because it will attack good metal and make the tool more prone to rust further latter.
 
it depends on the tool. is it heat treated or tempered? i had several sets of pliers and side cutters that had been left out in the weather by careless workers that was too rusted to open and close.i used my torch to heat the heads to a dull red heat and the rust came right off.i opened and closed each pair while they were still hot and they had full range of motion. after they cooled,i brushed them with a SS brush and used some of my gun blue on the bare metal.after applying a little grease, they were good as new.
 
My dad taught me that boiling the rusted object with old engjne oil is effective, it lubricates and removes any moisture and more times than not it frees up stuck joints.

Deano
 
http://www.truevalue.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=25122&parentCategoryId=13&categoryId=196&subCategoryId=1712&type=product&cid=gooshop&source=google_pla&9gtype=%7Bifsearch:search%7D%7Bifcontent:content%7D&9gkw=%7Bkeyword%7D&9gad=%7Bcreative%7D.1&9gpla=%7Bplacement%7D

This stuff works and does not damage the steel, comes out lookin like new.
 
Does anyone have a process to clean a rusty gas tank from a motorcycle, or a lawnmower?
 
For rusty tool I just soak them in used motor oil. The regular kind, not synthetic. Grandad taught me this. Let them soak for several days or weeks if you don't need them. Pull them out and wipe them down. They never look brand new again, but the rust is gone.

Thad.
 
oldgeek said:
Does anyone have a process to clean a rusty gas tank from a motorcycle, or a lawnmower?

Have they been removed? If so citric acid works well on surface rust. Beer can collectors use sodas or dilute citric acid.

http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=121049

This guy did it on some bike sprockets.

Eric
 
I posted this a while back and it has some good tips:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=14683
 
Hi Butcher, thanks for posting this for me. Sorry I thought there was an easy answer.

The tool in question is a 2000 lb old planer that I want to restore. So kind of tough to soak the entire thing in oil. :) I am going to be taking it down and pulling as many pieces as I can so the little pieces I can certainly soak.. Maybe i'll try the Citric Acid or the stuff from true value.

Here is a picture of the tool, thanks for the info everyone!

planer.jpg
 
Gas tank clean the tank with carburetor cleaner to clean the resin from dried gas, rinse well, a dilute acid soak phosphoric acid, then a water rinse, fill with lead or steel shot from shotguns (if rust is bad enough), add some water shack the tank vigorously to knock rust loose, dump, and reuse acid, and washes, repeat if needed, neutralize with backing soda, and hot water washes, blow out moisture with compressed air.

If you find a small pinhole leak, they make two part epoxy putty found at your auto parts store.

I have a 1939 Allis Chalmers tractor, the gas tank was nothing but rust and holes, after removing the rust, and welding up patches on the really big holes, I used fiberglass resin and cloth to coat the shell tank, and repainted it.

kkmonte,
I had a picture of a small hand held wood plane in my mind, I would take it apart, brush parts on a wire wheel, wire wheel chucked in a drill, wire brush and sand paper, treat parts with naval jelly, or a soak in phosphoric acid, or one of the other members suggested treatments, neutralize wash, dry paint where needed, and oil bare metal and reassemble the tool.

Irons,
Thanks for digging that up, now if I can just find that old spanish boat.
 
butcher said:
Gas tank clean the tank with carburetor cleaner to clean the resin from dried gas, rinse well, a dilute acid soak phosphoric acid, then a water rinse, fill with lead or steel shot from shotguns (if rust is bad enough), add some water shack the tank vigorously to knock rust loose, dump, and reuse acid, and washes, repeat if needed, neutralize with backing soda, and hot water washes, blow out moisture with compressed air.

If you find a small pinhole leak, they make two part epoxy putty found at your auto parts store.

I have a 1939 Allis Chalmers tractor, the gas tank was nothing but rust and holes, after removing the rust, and welding up patches on the really big holes, I used fiberglass resin and cloth to coat the shell tank, and repainted it.

kkmonte,
I had a picture of a small hand held wood plane in my mind, I would take it apart, brush parts on a wire wheel, wire wheel chucked in a drill, wire brush and sand paper, treat parts with naval jelly, or a soak in phosphoric acid, or one of the other members suggested treatments, neutralize wash, dry paint where needed, and oil bare metal and reassemble the tool.

Irons,
Thanks for digging that up, now if I can just find that old spanish boat.

I had acquired an old Kawasaki KZ750 that had a rusty Gas Tank. The rust had clogged the carbs to where it wouldn't run. I took the tank off and cleaned it as Butcher said, then coated the inside of the tank with a polymer compound made specifically for the purpose that I acquired at a Motorcycle shop, I don't remember the name but inquiries to bike shops that specialize in Rice Rockets will know, since those bikes seem to have a chronic problem with rust. After I put it all back together and rebuilt the carbs, it ran like new . I made a good return when I eventually sold it. It was a cheap fix.
 
I use phosphoric acid as a rust remover.

It is sold at Lowes as 'Naval Jelly' ( not for your belly button :lol: ) on the same isle as the chemicals. Paint it on, scrub with a scotch pad, and wash it off. Repeat if necessary. Shines metal up like new. After the rust is gone I coat the item with 3 in 1 oil.

Wear chemical resistant gloves as the stuff is corrosive.

Steve
 
You can use old AP solution to quickly remove any rust. Just lay it in the bucket and wait a few days. Once the bare metal is visible you must take it out quickly and lay it into destilled water to disolve remaining salts for some hours. Then the metal will need a protective coating/oil/paint etc.
 
The problem I have always had when cleaning a gas tank is flash rust. Literally seconds after dumping whatever was used to clean the tank out, it rusts again starting the process all over! :evil:

But this simple, cheap process I found on another forum works well:

Fill the tank to the top with vinegar, let it set for about a week, give it a shake every other day or so.
In the mean time, get enough baking soda and water to fill the tank mixed up and ready to go.
Then dump the vinegar as quick as you can, and immediately fill it with the baking soda and water mixture, and shake it around a bit. Dump the baking soda water, flush it out with the water hose, drain it, then pour an ounce or two of gas and a cap or two of oil in and shake it up.

The tank comes out looking BETTER than new, on the inside anyway!
 
I restored hundreds of old cast iron carpenter wood planes in my shop after my 'official' retirement. Was a business that I started that lasted for 7 years. I used electrolysis. It attacks the oxide but not the iron. It is the only way to get ALL the iron oxide off a piece of iron or steel. The sacrificial anode is a piece of scrap iron or steel and the cathode is the object to be cleaned. My tanks were peices of large plastic pipe with 1/2" wall thickness and about 28" tall to accomocate the longest plane. The botton end was sealed. The anode was 5/8" pieces of rebar arranged in a circle around the inside of the pipe about 1" apart and they were all electrically connected with 10 guage copper wire that had been silver soldered to all the rebar pieces. The planes were suspended in a solution of water and baking soda. I would use about 2 cups of baking soda per tank. I had two tanks in operation constantly. I would vary the current according to the size of the planes with the larger #8 planes set at 20 amps. The current was varied to achieve a constant current density depending on the size of the planes. At 20 amps the solution would get close to boiling temperature.

After cleaning the planes were painted with Stanley's original Asphaltum recipe and baked in an electric oven. I made the asphultum paint too.

Mike
 
Update, My friend and I took the planer apart and decided to try the citric acid powder. We mixed 2 cups per 5 gallons and used about 30 gallons in a container. After 48 hours of soaking, we neutralized in baking soda, then one more light scrub and washing in simple green. We primed (brown rustoleum primer) the parts that will be later painted, and the parts on the right were just coated in WD-40 to keep them from re-rusting. We couldn't have been more impressed by the outcome from the soak. Amazing!

Thanks for the info!

Ken

clean-pieces.JPG
 

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