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Are they cleaning up copper and other base metals, and/or PGMs, from the solution before reducing to get FIVE NINES ??? :shock:

Some special washing procedures after the reduction perhaps?.

The only 5N I have ever seen was obtained by electrolysis at the RCM, and it was more than "one single pass", to say the least.

Ferro claims 6N is possible in their DBC pamphlet, but it's cumbersome, and certainly not a "single pass".

It'd be really cool to get 5N straight up after 1 digestion. 8)
 
I'd be happy with 4-9's after one pass.I have to run at least 2 passes to get 3-9's.Of course I am not set up correctly for 4-9's.
I am paid the same for 98 to 4-9's so it's not in my interest to run 2 passes.
 
mic said:
I'd be happy with 4-9's after one pass.I have to run at least 2 passes to get 3-9's.Of course I am not set up correctly for 4-9's.
I am paid the same for 98 to 4-9's so it's not in my interest to run 2 passes.

A sure fire way to make 4N's is to alloy 3N's with 5N's 50-50. Make sure your crucible is clean. :lol:
 
HAuCl4 said:
mic said:
I'd be happy with 4-9's after one pass.I have to run at least 2 passes to get 3-9's.Of course I am not set up correctly for 4-9's.
I am paid the same for 98 to 4-9's so it's not in my interest to run 2 passes.

A sure fire way to make 4N's is to alloy 3N's with 5N's 50-50. Make sure your crucible is clean. :lol:

Like dehydrated Water, Just add Water. :mrgreen:
 
Irons said:
HAuCl4 said:
mic said:
I'd be happy with 4-9's after one pass.I have to run at least 2 passes to get 3-9's.Of course I am not set up correctly for 4-9's.
I am paid the same for 98 to 4-9's so it's not in my interest to run 2 passes.

A sure fire way to make 4N's is to alloy 3N's with 5N's 50-50. Make sure your crucible is clean. :lol:

Like dehydrated Water, Just add Water. :mrgreen:

Only you would find a use for dehydrated water Irons. 8)
 
Irons said:
Like dehydrated Water, Just add Water. :mrgreen:

mmmmm. Can the copper/others be hydrolized and filtered out and the gold kept in solution?. :idea:

It's either something like that or some form of Sx to get 5N consistently with a single digestion.
 
HAuCl4 said:
Irons said:
Like dehydrated Water, Just add Water. :mrgreen:

mmmmm. Can the copper/others be hydrolized and filtered out and the gold kept in solution?. :idea:

It's either something like that or some form of Sx to get 5N consistently with a single digestion.

I'm assuming you meant converted into hydroxides and the gold kept in solution.

The addition of KOH will precipitate the metallics as hydroxides. Gold will form soluble complexes called Aurates as the PH is increased, but I think other elements will form soluble complexes as well.
Everything you wanted to know:
http://matsci.uah.edu/courseware/mts501/reports/sschwitalla.html
 
What happens as pH approaches 7 from below?. Will all the base metals form hidroxides before gold does?. The Pt does not form hidroxides. When you mentioned hydrated water, the Pt hydrolysis process came to mind, and that is why I posted. Can a similar process be devised for gold?. Of course this is before reduction to metal to minimize drag down. :?:
 
HAuCl4 said:
What happens as pH approaches 7 from below?. Will all the base metals form hidroxides before gold does?. The Pt does not form hidroxides. When you mentioned hydrated water, the Pt hydrolysis process came to mind, and that is why I posted. Can a similar process be devised for gold?. Of course this is before reduction to metal to minimize drag down. :?:

I have no idea. :mrgreen:
 
By the way here's a typical chemical analysis from one of the big 4 (Not Republic) for their gold (9999) and silver (9995) fineness. Notice the main contaminants in each case. Obviously easier commercially to make 9999 gold than 9999 silver...

Date Reported 2/24/09
Element %
Silver 99.9874
Gold TRACE
Platinum
Palladium .0001
Copper .0058
Nickel ND
Iron ND
Zinc .0001
Aluminum ND
Antimony .0002
Bismuth ND
Lead .0047
Selenium .0001
Tellurim ND
Phosphorous ND
Potassium .0003
Sodium .0014
Calcium ND
Magnesium ND
Sulfur ND


Date Reported 3/5/09
Element %
Gold 99.9959
Silver .0030
Platinum .0005
Palladium .0003
Copper .0001
Nickel .0001
Iron ND
Zinc .0001
Aluminum
Antimony ND
Bismuth ND
Lead ND
Selenium
Tellurim ND
Phosphorous
Potassium
Sodium
Calcium
Magnesium ND
Sulfur
Cadmium
Chromium ND
Tin ND
Arsenic ND
 
I can see agitation speeding digestion, but why/how does it improve purity?
I must admit that rotating 1000 gallons of AR like that would make me very nervous!.
 
After watching the video several times I conclude:

1-They DO have a proprietary hydrometallurgical method to get 9999 gold or 99999 upon request in one single pass. And since it is very hard for most to make 9999 gold with a single pass (ice or no ice, oxalic or SO2 or whatever), and nearly impossible for most to make 99999 in two passes, they must be careful to not reveal any details.

2-They do not show anything "proprietary" about their process in the video, and that fancy rotating reactor is just a distraction.

Till I get the chance to visit inside that refinery, I will not know for sure what they are doing that is so special. :shock:
 
With appropriate wash procedures and expert handling it is entirely possible to get over 4N gold with a single precipitation.

The finer the atomized product you produce and the more you leach the base metals, the purer it will be. On the flip side, the finer the silver chloride powder produced, the more prone to dissolution, and the more likely it is to hold onto your gold solution thus necessitating more dilute HCl rinse which drags silver into the solution....

The real secret to high purity gold is in fact dilution of solution and correct chelating ligands.
Pretend, for instance that you had had a mixture of oranges, lemons, and limes in a large pool of spectator fruit (ions) and water. The lemons are the gold (III) atoms, the oranges and limes are other metals that would contaminate the gold upon its reduction and subsequent nucleation. If you have more dead space (i.e. water) the likelihood of limes and oranges being around the lemons when the lemons are agglomerating together is decreased. This means the limes and oranges don't get stuck with the lemons as they come together because there are less of them present per unit of volume. It's a statistical mechanics problem. Also, the temperature at which one precipitates will also affect the quality because the free kinetic energy of the solution will determine how fast a precipitate forms--generally speaking, the longer the ripening of a precipitate (this is modeled best numerically via spinodal decomposition processes and a nasty set of PDEs), the more prone a precipitate is to have extremely high quality because defects in the forming crystal lattices are less common. Consequently, this means there are less opportunities for a silver or copper or lead, or whatever else ion to "sneak" into the structure. The density of the precipitate also has a bearing on quality--usually the spongier something is (with higher surface area) the more likely it is to adsorb and absorb undesirables. This temperature effect is especially cogent with certain PGM compounds (most of which are seldom seen in refining, but they have structural morphisms that are temperature dependent).

Copper, silver, and palladium are the chief offenders that need to be removed from gold. Why? Palladium has a similar reduction potential and can be dropped with SO2. Copper is liable to produce its cuprous chloride which needs removed. Silver forms its chloride which can also form a soluble complex if the temperature is high enough and the solution saturated enough with chloride anion (this is counterintuitive to what most people would recall of the common ion effect). That's why after the digestion is done, ice is added. Obviously, the lower the temperature, the lower the activity of the solution, the better the removal of silver and other insolubles. There is, however, a trick to the volume increase--you can't add so much that the amount of chloride anion is minimal because that will encourage more silver to go into solution. It's skewed towards low temperature, high dilution. The colder and to a certain extent, more dilute one gets the aqua regia solution, the better the silver will be removed. Obviously, there's a balancing act on how dilute and how cool one can go (more dilute means less cool, more concentrated, means colder). All of this can be modeled based off of existing know-how with solute-solution equilibria and then backed up empirically.

So, how then to get the purest gold in the fastest turn around?

This is the modus operandi that I consider the best (for karat):

  • 1.) Incoming material is melted inductively, a sample pulled and run via fire assay (with nondestructive XRF before hand)
    2.) This material is heated and poured into a preheated tundish (which must be heated in its own right)
    3.) It is struck by high pressure water hitting the stream of metal at a certain point in its free fall
    4.) The material is effectively atomised into a fine powder (think of a beach sand with a slight distribution in size) but NO finer, as it makes settling over long and requires flocculating agents
    5.) Fluid decanted or pumped off via diaphragm pump and passed through a cellulosic filter to recover a small quantity of highly fine materials
    6.) Granulated product is digested in aqua regia, or HCl-Cl2 mix with careful additions made to prevent a froth over due to high surface area
    7.) After digestion is complete (evidenced by Au(III) ion concentration plateau in spectrophotometer, reactor is emptied, shot of sulfuric acid added to remove incidental lead from solder
    8.) Ice is added and allowed to mostly melt, this dilutes the solution and drops the temperature, decreasing Ag+ content in solution
    9.) Filter pressed with ice cold 0.05 M HCl rinse (look for filtrate to run clear and neg. with stannous)
    10.) Solution is treated with various proprietary chemicals
    11.) Reduce with whatever reducing agent is desired, preferably while solution is cold (for LSO2 at least).
    12.) Filter press the gold, rinse with HCl and ammonium hydroxide.
    13.) Heat lamp til dry
    14.) Pack in crucible (residual ammonium chloride from rinse is beneficial in removing any last base metals; a tad bit of high purity nitre and borax can also be added) and melt
    15.) Weigh and assay

There should be no evaporation to remove nitric. In fact, a degree of free nitric acid can be perfectly tolerated, but really, it's foolish to use more nitric acid than is required, or any more chlorine or chlorate (neither of which are detrimental, but more chlorate means more chloride which means more dilution to rid the silver). Wasting reagents is wasting money. This is why less filtrations are better, less manipulation is better, less of anything that costs time and effort and doesn't have a justified return is far better.

If one was under a less tight schedule but wanted quicker accountability on the silver and better over all purity, one can leach the powder with hot 50:50 nitric acid to remove the silver and the base metals
and then cement the silver and run an ICP to check for gold (tech grade nitric acid sadly has some Cl- in there which will make a very weak aqua regia but will still dissolve very small portion of gold).

Lou
 
run an ICP to check for gold (tech grade nitric acid sadly has some Cl- in there which will make a very weak aqua regia but will still dissolve very small portion of gold).

I have had similar issues using tech grade nitric on silver dissolves where gold was present but was not the major metal. I was successful in cementing out the gold digested thanks to the chloride impurity in the acid by using fine silver. It is not as fast as copper but it will change places in solution with gold.

I have also heard a technique used in dropping gold where the gassing of cold SO2 is stopped when about 90% of the gold is dropped. The gold is filtered out and the balance of the gold is gassed. This gold is washed and is the highest purity gold. The theory being that at the end of the reaction, the SO2 begins to react with the Copper and drop it as well. We have all seen the results of over-gassing gold in solution and the white copper crystals can be seen if you really over gassed. The copper is soluble in concentrated HCl but the purity will suffer. Well the copper apparently starts to come out of solution before all of the gold drops and while it is very little it is enough to be a problem when you are looking for .9999 purity or better. I have never had a client who needed the gold to be .99999 so I have yet to test this process. The gold dropped at the end of the precipitation is not as pure and has to be reprocessed.

This step may not be necessary if you are washing your precipitated gold with HCl as Lou suggests, as I said I have yet to test this procedure.
 

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