simple filtration question no one addresses

[steyr223]

65% nitric acid, 500 ml flask 1-2 lbs of gold / copper pins (connector pins not cpu's)
add pins to flask add enough NA to cover pins

wait 20 min reaction slows add 50ml NA about 4 times every 20 or so min
decide I'm wasting the acid even though i am still seeing violent reactions 1) Is this right?

try to decant but gold wont settle and there is muddy blue bits so i try
the coffee filter but the filter plugs up

So being that i don't know what i am doing and all the misinfo i have in my head
i decide to do a wash in the same flask with very hot water (I now have a list numberd in order)

i realize heat makes the solution settle. 2)Is this right?
now i decant the bluish liquid and let sit, but there is still solids in the solution

3) could it be pieces of copper that didn't dissolve ?

last question i decanted the liquid into several containers and let sit over night
one of the containers i decanted completely which left a muddy brow layer 4) what is this

for your info i think some one might have thrown some sodium bisulphate in could it be that

WOW sorry ok i need to rest

thank u for this cool form

 

[butcher]

You need to dilute your nitric (70%HNO3 + H2O, 50:50), this will lower fumes produced and make your nitric acid go further.

After reactions slow heat them, you will be surprised how much more metals your solutions will dissolve.
Heating can also drive off any excess nitric if needed.

The powder sounds to be your gold and any un-dissolved base metals, try rinsing them in diluted nitric solution (Hot) see if blue color if so wash out copper till clear then you could move your powders to aqua regia to purify gold.

If you put in sodium bisulfate, rinsing and incinerating the powders to remove sulfates would help before proceeding.

 

[steyr223]

thanx butcher i really appreciate your time

Im pretty sure there is no acid left but still see gold flake in container #1
only 1/2 inch of liquid on top of bluish sludge

container #2 that was decanted from #1 has the brownish mud and is completely dry
I poked around in the mud and there is a layer of white under it

I will dilute my acid from now on and heat thx

container #!
should i do another small amount of dilute nitric acid now? or should 1 just add water and heat
It seems logical that i add water heat and if still left with color then do dilute acid again.

container #2
incinerate? put on some type of hot plate and heat until red hot or put flame directly
to contents

and the filter? i am just getting to the part of making your own filters in holke's book
what is this made of

I know most people don't like to filter (do to loss)
seems maybe after i do what u said about heating and how much more metals dissolve
i might not need to filter

thx I will try this

 

[butcher]

Tin and nitric acid make a gooey paste, giving trouble with filtering or even for values to settle,
some times heating will help this colloidal solution, if not much tin is involved, How much solder was on pins?, if it is too bad sometimes some fiberglass insulation packed in the neck of a funnel to pre filter bulk material, then using a coffee filter to re-filter solutions will work, or let sit for days and settle, if too much tin sometimes just slowly evaporating all liquid out to dry powder and roasting is the only way.

Incineration of the tin will oxidize it so that it will dissolve easier in a hot hydrochloric acid wash. (If you are going back to nitric acid after this process, you will need to re-roast these salts again after HCl wash see more below).

Remember any time you are changing acids and include nitric acid and HCL you will form an aqua regia that will dissolve gold, this is true if the metal salt was formed from one of these acids, incineration of powders will remove the acidic anion (like nitrate or chloride) from your powders, so they will not be a problem for the next acid.



Gold will not dissolve in nitric acid (so you should see flakes of gold or at least powders or brown powders), copper will dissolve if you had used enough dilute acidto dissolve and put all copper into solution (blue color), lead dissolve but seems to form crystals easily, tin is just a mess in nitric acid (keep tin or solder out of nitric unless you just love having troubles).

As far as filtering: normally I will let powders settle and decant the solution filtering the solution if I will be cementing or precipitating something from the solution, you do not lose values filtering, as filters are saved, it really depends on what we are processing and at what stage as to whether filtering is a good idea or not.


I may be wrong but I suspect solder and tin is one problem, and maybe you have not dissolved all of the base metals (sounds like you still have them in powders if not still some elemental metal)

 

[patnor1011]

Did you read Hoke book and newbies section on this forum?

What do you use for testing your solutions?

 

[steyr223]

thanks butcher

and patnor1011 test? don't be silly i dip my finger in it and lick it :lol:
it' funny you mention that i was just about to start another thread

but i'll ask here

put 2.5 grams of 95'5 solder in 30ml of muratic37% acid is that right
my solder has difficulties dissolving
i have crushed it smashed it and broke it up
am i missing something

and about hoke's book i red it but my recall is not
what it used to be I need to buy the book so i have it next
to me
reading it on the computer it just seems difficult to jump to any reference
with out going through every page

(with acid all over your hands and all my gold boiling all over the front lawn )

hold on there i was just kidding! and i didn't see a newbeee section

thanks steyr223 (i haven't thrown a grain away still got it somewhere)

 

[steyr223]

and one more thing

patnor1101
from your pic ...uhm arn't you just a little to young to be playing with these chemicals :lol:

 

[Palladium]

put 2.5 grams of 95'5 solder in 30ml of muratic37% acid is that right
my solder has difficulties dissolving
i have crushed it smashed it and broke it up
am i missing something

Heat!

 

[steyr223]

i did till most of the acid was gone

i intended to make bigger batch to make up for evaporation

the solder may be very old and no it's not 50/50


did you get my messages palladium something would not let me post back to the original message

thanks

 

[Geo]

lol. the object of this process is to have a solution to test with. place the solder in the acid and let it sit overnight. heat is required if you need it in a hurry but if you are making batches that will be used the next day no heat is needed. dont cap the reaction until bubbles stop. any lead free solder will work,even plumbing type solder as long as it has tin. ive never tried resin core but the resin is a type or contains a type of acid that may interfere with the way the solution test.

 

[steyr223]

THANKS GEO
i will try again its really not there hard to make
2 + 2 = 4 all the time, every time, its an exact. with no other alternatives. guaranteed same outcome,no maybe kinda sorta
almost or even close

with chemistry it' exactly opposite , so many variables

so whats my variable did i sneeze when i should of coughed
for some reason its not dissolving the solder

i think i will just go back to licking my finger i might only be right about the gold 50% of the time
but i can tell you if acid is present :lol:

thank you steyr223

 

[Geo]

its either one of two things or maybe both. (1) your solder doesn't contain tin (2) your acid doesn't contain hcl. i will guaranty that if you put solder that contains tin in hcl acid you will get a reaction at room temperature within a few minutes or less. tin is the boon of my refining so far and if i could find a way to selectively reclaim the tin from my solutions i would have a new source of income. :lol: im using electronics solder that is high silver content. i place the solder in my bottle and add my hcl,put the cap on loosely and the next day i have my solution and a nice pile of black powder in the bottom of my bottle. my stock came from military test oscilloscopes, they have white porcelain bridges that the components are soldered to.two sets of bridges with diodes and resistors,one leg on one bridge and the other leg on the other bridge. these things are packed with these bridges and each one came with its own roll of silver solder,usually about 4 OZ's worth but some had more and ive torn down dozens.thats alot of silver solder.

 

[steyr223]

i considered the solder must not have tin but since the led regulation thing i thought all (plumbing) solder was 95/5
then again i thought the solder was old just not that old

i will attempt different solder

thanks

 

[butcher]

You can still buy lead solder, but it is not to be used for plumbing drinking water. Some of this will also depend on your state or area you live in.

Check the label of the solder; it should be marked as type and metal percentages.
You can also look up the brand and type on the intranet or MSDS.

I bought my Hoke’s book from Action mining, and for me the book form is worth every penny I spent. Check out their catalog online, they carry a lot of goodies, and the catalog also has some interesting facts and formulas, I am not advertising for them, as I feel they are a little high on some things but again I love to go and shop there.

I believe GSP posted the cheapest place he found Hokes book at.

Partnor has made a very good point, about testing, why refine in the dark?

 

[steyr223]

thank you everyone

you all have made good points

and patnor i thank you for putting me back in order

i decided to read the book over again this time im writing my own book

with notes and i now have the proper solder

thank you