sims in ap.....wheres the gold? Are they even gold?

[vegaswinner]

What yield would you expect of 320 phone sims??

After 24 hrs in ap all sims were stripped to the circuit board protective layer, the ap solution was still fairly clear and straight away it was obvious there were not many foils in the solution. I rinsed the strainer bucket holding the sims and only a few tiny flakes were visible. Filtering the ap was almost impossible, after pouring off most of the solution and then waitin for the foils to settle it was clear something else was in the solution. It was like gloopy blobs in the solution and all the foils were literally in suspension throughout the solution left in the bucket. I ended up pouring everything left in the bucket into a filter then washin the filter back into the bucket in order to rinse the foils in hcl. Each time this gloop persisted and all the foils were held in suspension. I continued to rinse with hcl, 3 times, then dissolved what was left with hcl-cl. No gold looking solution and an extremely weak stannous result (my tester could be dated though).

Wondering what could have happened, checkin everything, the bucket was cleaned, solutions all new, has the gold somehow dissolved in the ap??? I tried as an experiment to just soak the sims in hcl to see what happened, to my surprise 24hrs later the "gold" appears to be dissolving (see pic). Any idea what happening here, is something in the sim itself causing the hcl to disolve the gold or is something else going on here?

 

[Geo]

if you started out with fresh hcl and added peroxide you should have some gold in solution. the reason you dont have gold in solution with large batches is the solution becomes saturated with copper and precipitates the gold as powder. test your solution with stannous chloride, even small amounts of gold in solution will show up. dont expect a dramatic color change with such small amounts just give it a little time and see if you get a purple stain.

 

[Claudie]

Did you Stannous test the AP? Did the plastic part of the card partially dissolve, could that be the blobs? Do they appear "thinner"? Did the cards have any stickers on them that could have dissolved into the solution?

 

[Smack]

You put the whole card in AP? If it's not plated why put it in? Invest in a paper cutter, I trim all kinds of escrap with mine, fingers and so on.

 

[vegaswinner]

The AP solution is still more or less clear so it can't be staurated with copper can it? The solution was also fresh. I did test both the ap and aucl3 but got nothing with stannous, i got a feeling the stannous could be dated although I only made it 2 weeks ago. The plastic on the sims doesn't appear to have been attacked from what I can see, it is certainly possible some stickers went unnoticed on the sims when I put them in the bucket so that could answer the gloop problem. If stickers were disolved would you expect the solution to then suspend the foils instead of them settling at the bottom?

Also would you expect HCL on its own to strip foils?

 

[Geo]

hcl acid alone will not digest copper. the reason you add peroxide is to create copper chloride. copper chloride is an etchant and will dissolve copper and the free hcl holds it in suspension. if you notice when you add peroxide the solution turns yellow then quickly turns green. this is first the gold going into solution and then copper. the solution will clear after a little while if its fresh AP but copper chloride is still present. AP is not saturated with copper until the solution turns brown. optimally you want the solution any shade of green, light green to emerald. if you started with fresh hcl and added peroxide in the presence of gold you will have a small amount of gold in solution. peroxide is just water with an extra atom of oxygen, in the reaction it lends this extra atom to the acid and gold will go into solution of hcl if enough oxygen is available.

 

[vegaswinner]

hcl acid alone will not digest copper. the reason you add peroxide is to create copper chloride. copper chloride is an etchant and will dissolve copper and the free hcl holds it in suspension. if you notice when you add peroxide the solution turns yellow then quickly turns green. this is first the gold going into solution and then copper. the solution will clear after a little while if its fresh AP but copper chloride is still present. AP is not saturated with copper until the solution turns brown. optimally you want the solution any shade of green, light green to emerald. if you started with fresh hcl and added peroxide in the presence of gold you will have a small amount of gold in solution. peroxide is just water with an extra atom of oxygen, in the reaction it lends this extra atom to the acid and gold will go into solution of hcl if enough oxygen is available.

Would you expect clean 32% HCL alone to strip the foils off the sims (or fingers for that matter)? (This is happening in the picture)

I have a good idea what the purpose of the peroxide is for with regard to dealing with copper, to oxidize the copper in order for the hcl to digest it as copper oxide. So are you saying that the lack of copper in the sims is what is causing the AP to digest most of the gold? The solution was very weak (less than a quart of 3% peroxide)

Would I be correct in thinking that the H2O2 with its extra oxygen atom wizzing around also helps to speed up the stripping process? Stripping the sims in hcl alone would take along time in which case when stripping foils from something not copper bearing would it be a good idea to drop a copper pipe into the mix in order to prevent the stripped foils being digested?

 

[vegaswinner]

I just re read my original post

"to my surprise 24hrs later the "gold" appears to be dissolving (see pic). Any idea what happening here, is something in the sim itself causing the hcl to disolve the gold or is something else going on here?"

I think here I ment to say stripping and strip not disolving.....This is what happens when you type stuff half asleep!lol :roll:

 

[Geo]

when dissolving metals, less noble metals or metals lower on the periodic table will go into solution first and more noble metal only if there is "space" for lack of a better word, last. gold goes into solution at the addition of H2O2 because for one thing that's the only metal available and second gold will go into solution in an oxidized solution of hcl. you cant gold plate over plastic without a base metal, even if its so thin it literally disappears in AP.

 

[Geo]

you may want to try ferric chloride to process the sim cards. digest some light steel in hcl until the solution absorbs all the iron it can. at least two days. use this solution as is with light heat and air supply.