SMB Wont work properly

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M

Moo

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
173
Hi forum, I have had a soultion of Au chloride I dissolved in acid/bleach which I let sit for 24 hours upon adding SMB 6 grams around what I was expecting my solution took about 20 mins to clear and even that didnt clear completly and still had a yellowish tinge after several hours and no change I added some more Au chloride solution and water as well as some smb also yet the solution is still light yellow and the only amount of gold I can see is a tiny amount of powder on the bottom, What to do? I was thinking of heating it but im afraid the Gold might go with the fumes.
 
you can heat the solution. theres no need to worry about losing the gold if you cover the container and not boil. bring the solution to the temperature that it is steaming and keep it the for an hour or a little more.
 
Ok Geo will do :) will cover with plate and heat till it steams, however how does one maintain it at this temp with a non variable hotplate? ok to switch it on till it starts steaming then off then on and so forth until it starts to react? or should I get a better hotplate?
 
you need a hotplate with a temperature setting. as long as its hot enough for water to steam, its hot enough.turn on the power until it reaches a slow boil and then shut the power off. repeat this for a couple of hours.
be sure to test the solution with stannous chloride before you add SMB and again in an hour after you add SMB to be sure theres no more gold in solution.
 
okay well I just have 4 temp dials will set to 1 and proceed with cover over top. May I ask what the idea behind this is as im confused and would like to understand, Im assuming its to drive off water its just going to drop back in if covered????
 
Did you added distilled water? Even your tap water contains chlorine. Also check your smb it may be past "best before date". I mean sometimes when it is not stored properly and moisture get in smb is less effective.
 
no it was tap water during this chaos i considered the SMB may be bad as a small amount was lumpy but I tried some more from a unopened container to no avail.
 
also, if you add too much SMB to the solution, an over abundance of tiny SO2 bubbles will form as the gold precipitates (especially if its a small amount of gold) the gold will adhere to the bubbles causing them to be too heavy to rise and burst on the surface and the bubble causes the gold to be too light to sink to the bottom. you will have a murky solution for days. by heating, it will drive the SO2 bubble out of solution releasing the fine gold powder allowing it to settle. a murky solution should clear after an hour or so after being heated.

this is also the reason you will find a light dusting of gold powder floating on the surface of the liquid, being deposited there from the bubbles bursting.
 
Steve I processed foils fromm fingers and fiber cpu pins as well as gold that I couldnt get to melt properly with torch, and some paper scrap that was incinerated as described in hokes on a frypan but covered in metho till it burnt out everything I cleaned well boiling and washing in water and HCL 3 times the soultion was filtered using #1 lab filters and came through very clean. SMB is the proper stuff and has worked fine for me previously. Its now been about 46 hours and no change the soultion is clearish with a hint of yellow and very little powder on the bottom. Solution has a ph of 1
 
Geo I just finished the heating process and am letting it cool back down, I will test with stannous when done so it looks like theres a lot more powder now however solution still has a slight yewllow colour wil test for purple color with stannous shortly
 
Moo said:
Geo I just finished the heating process and am letting it cool back down, I will test with stannous when done so it looks like theres a lot more powder now however solution still has a slight yewllow colour wil test for purple color with stannous shortly
Click to expand...
Your FIRST post should have made reference to the results from testing wtih stannous chloride. Why are you guessing? Have you not read Hoke's book, and learned how to test properly?

Harold
 
a yellow solution does not always mean gold. palladium will look yellow if its concentrated enough to see after precipitating gold. only the stannous test will show for sure, if its purple its gold and if its green its palladium.
 
Harold I hadnt tested with stannous at that stage so I didnt include it this solution contains gold I know its there because I was the one who dissolved it in hcl/bleach according to what ive learnt.
I work a 8 hour a day job and have to fit in many other things as well so I have only read parts of hoke thus far will probaly take me 6 months to get through the whole thing lol.
no guessing about that :)

Geo Through researching this forum I am aware of how to test properly, thanks for the advice once again.
 
Moo said:
Harold I hadnt tested with stannous at that stage so I didnt include it this solution contains gold I know its there because I was the one who dissolved it in hcl/bleach according to what ive learnt.
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I'm not the least bit concerned about the fact that you are the one who dissolved the gold, for that has nothing to do with the point at hand, and sends the wrong message to those who hope to learn good lab practice.

The real point is, once you've precipitated, regardless of your circumstances, testing is in order. That way you know for certain that you have, or have not, recovered all of the values. I say this for good reason, one that will eventually jump up and bite you on the butt if you don't learn this lesson early on. You can not judge a solution by its color, nor should you assume that you have precipitated all that is in solution. Testing costs virtually nothing, and takes no time of note. To not test is not the wisest thing you can do. If you don't have time to do it right, you really don't have time to do it at all. That, too, is a lesson you will come to understand.

Harold
 
Harold you learn alot by your mistakes. Something I look forward to, I am aware its good practice and procedure to test if all gold has precipitated and completly agree with you, I fail to see though what point there is in testing a solution that you know contains Gold. Perhaps because there may be other elements present stopping it from precipitating? Guess I will come to learn that as well.

Thanks for the input
 
Again, you're missing the point. Testing is to assure you KNOW that there is gold in a solution. Once you have attempted precipitation, if you achieve results in any way, testing is a valuable resource. There's more than one reason why a solution can be yellow---or the color of gold chloride. That's the point. That you happen to be right in this particular circumstance does not guarantee that you will be right in others.

Let me be perfectly succinct. I refined for more than 20 years, on a daily basis. I tested constantly (I also used ferrous sulfate crystals, in conjunction with stannous chloride). It took little time for me to come to terms with the idea that I *didn't* know what was going on at all times---and that testing was my salvation.

Your response to me indicates a considerable amount of cockiness that is going to burn you in good time. Whether you learn the hard way, or by taking seasoned advice, is your choice, but learn you will. Displaying attitude is not in your best interest.

Harold
 

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