Sodium Meta Bisulfite VS Sodium pyro sulfite

[BangBang]

Before I try to drop my first batch of AR, I want to be sure I am not about to make a mistake.
There are several threads that state SMB (Sodium Meta Bisulfite) is the same as Sodium Pyro sulfite. - I think Butcher states that in one of his threads which I am inclined to trust because he seems very knowledgeable.

But other threads I have read describe a member using Stump-Out (SMB) and having no results.

Yet another says there are two types of (Bonide brand) Stump-Out one that uses SMB and another that uses some other chemical.

First question - Is Sodium Meta bisulfite the same as Sodium Pyro sulfite?

Second question - There are no chemical statements at all on the Bonide Stump-Out bottle I purchased. What test can I use to determine if in fact, I have Sodium Meta Bisulfite.

Thanks all.

BB

 

[butcher]

Read these:
http://www.bonide.com/lbonide/msds/msds271.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metabisulfite
learn to search for MSDS of the chemicals you use, these also can come in handy to see what chemicals the product contains.

(Na2S2O5), SMB, sodium metabisulfite and sodium pyrosulfite all the same chemical, many chemicals have older names, or sometime the names fall out of favor with chemist,
and they will call it by a different name like sodium hydrogen sulfate or sodium bisulfate NaHSO4 sometimes depending on chemist who is talking about a chemical may use a different name than another, even areas of the world sulfate and sulphate are the same chemical just different spelling from a different country.

Other brands of sump remover can contain potassium nitrate , which is good to use to make nitric acid, but will not precipitate gold from solution, Hi yield is one such brand.

Mix in acid like HCl you will generate sulfur dioxide gas that has a distinct smell.

 

[BangBang]

Thanks Butcher.

I did read the MSDS - But being somewhat new, I did not trust my understanding.
And being my first "controlled" drop, I still don't know if I did everything correctly. So far everything went as predicted, but I won't be 100% sure of my process until I've produced and tested a button of gold.

So anything I can do to eliminate errors will help me ascertain where I went wrong, should something not run as expected.

Once again - Thanks for the information, it's much appreciated.

BB

 

[butcher]

BB,
I understand, and it is good to double check when you are not sure of something, especially adding chemicals together that your not sure what they are or what the will form, and what dangers they pose, another note: use your stannous chloride to keep an eye on your values, keep a stock pot and do not throw anything out until you know you have recovered all of the values.

keep up the good work of studying, it must be paying off if every thing is going as expected, I always seem to run into the unexpected.

 

[BangBang]

Like I said - My first "controlled" batch. I won't mention the mistakes I made when I though this was a simple process.

I am keeping all my discarded (decanted) liquids, but they are building up.
As a means of not letting this get out of hand (from a physical space point of view, I spent the day testing ways to evaporate the bottles of liquid I've accumulated.

With winter on it's way, it's not practical to keep several 5 gal buckets of liquid in the garage, nor is it safe to leave it outside where it could freeze - splitting the pail and leaking out. (Not sure what the freezing point might be, but I don't want to learn the hard way)

My goal is a small concentrated mixture that I can test over the winter - in small batches. I am sure there will be a high percentage of lead, some tin, silver, gold that I've missed and perhaps some platinum group metals. It will be fun to "dissect the slop"

Any advice on reducing that volume will be accepted with the same gratitude as always.

Thanks

BB

 

[butcher]

I did not mean to keep every bit of solution or waste you generated,just be sure to recover values, testing and cementing with copper will recover values from solution settle well and decant, then treat the copper solution with iron to cement out the copper as powders again settle and decant. then treat iron solution for waste, neutralizing the acidic solution raising pH to precipitating most of the trouble some base metals decant the salt water, dry the powder.


Remember to check the materials you were leaching metals from as these could be where gold was left, sometimes this material if remaining metals can be good in the stock pot.

many times after I decant a solution I will hang a copper bar in the jar, or decant into a jar with some copper metal like circuit breaker copper arms with a silver button I wish to remove, after setting a few days this will be decanted to my waste bucket the fine powders are collected and added with my filter paper bucket (plastic coffee can).

yes the waste can get out of control if you let it.

 

[BangBang]

I can't test anything until mt tin arrives. My stannous went dead months ago. Until then I am keeping everything.

As my first batch of fluids evaporates,(In a stainless pot with mild heat), I am noticing the sides of the pot lined with copper.

I also see some gold flake that escaped when an inexperienced and not all that patient me decanted too early.

 

[BJL1984]

I read the MSDS and it say's sodium disulfite not sodium metabisulfite am I missing somethign here of is it the sulfite part of it that brings out the gold

 

[Geo]

not sure if you mis-spelled sodium Bisulfite or you meant to type disulfite (which im not sure, well im pretty sure thats not even a compound) . sodium bisulfite will work to precipitate gold. sodium metabisulfite is recommended because it was very easy to source not so long ago. you could buy it at the grocery store and where ever canning supplies was sold. canning has slowly been replaced by canned goods and almost no one cans their own produce any more. sodium sulfite, sodium bisulfite, sodium metabisulfite and sodium pyrosulfite will all work the same way.

 

[butcher]

NaHSO3 sodium disulfite is just another name for sodium bisulfite.

Na2S2O5 sodium metabisulfite is sometimes called disodium (metabisulfite).

SMB sodium metabisulfite can be made evaporating a solution of sodium bisulfite NaHSO3 saturated with sulfur dioxide gas.

 

[BJL1984]

thanks butcher and geo for commenting, now I feel a little better i that I didnt waste my money on the stump out stuff,

 

[qst42know]

I can't test anything until mt tin arrives. My stannous went dead months ago. Until then I am keeping everything.

As my first batch of fluids evaporates,(In a stainless pot with mild heat), I am noticing the sides of the pot lined with copper.

I also see some gold flake that escaped when an inexperienced and not all that patient me decanted too early.

What kind of solution do you have in a stainless pot?

If you are cementing copper your pot is dissolving. Stop before it's too late.