Something odd growing in my silver cell please help.

[xdxninjax]

Hello. First I have learned so much, so thank you. I am a beginner with no background in doing silver refining. So I have read and watched lots of info. Sreetips is my main go to for info. I am using the stainless steel bowl method. My first harvest was amazing. The only issue I was having was I was not quite getting to 1 Amp at 3.5 volts. I filtered the nitrate and put in a new basket. The first 24 hr was going like normal. I took a look this morning and all was fine but a couple hours later I find this thick layer of muck (I think its silver chloride). My questions are.

How did this happen? I didn't use any tap water and the %90 shot I used was rinsed with distilled water.

What do I do next? Do I filter it out and use copper and makes some silver cement and make some new nitrate?

Thank you in advance for any advice.

 

[xdxninjax]

The thick stuff is the consistency of like a tofu and it is very light.

 

[Lino1406]

This looks more silver nitrate than silver chloride

 

[xdxninjax]

When I found it it looked like it was coming from the anode falling down and making a pile along with coating the sides for the bowl and its white in color. Like I said I am a total newbie but willing to learn.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Do you have an anode bag to catch the slimes? Could there be a hole in it?

Dave

 

[xdxninjax]

It was new filter bag. I am using the vacuum bag sreetips uses. There could be a chance of a hole. I pulled the anode and stoped the process. I will look tomorrow.

My real question is what do I do next? Do I filter the unknown material out and cement out the silver and start over?

 

[Palladium]

I didn't use any tap water and the 90% shot I used was rinsed with distilled water.

Please do tell more!

 

[xdxninjax]

I am have been taking some %90 silver coins and making shot out of them to feed the anode. I melt them down in a old crucible that I have drilled a hole in the bottom of it drips down into a I'm bucket of water. Sometimes the shot has pointy edges I am thinking maybe that poked a hole and some of the slime leaked out but that's just my best guess with no real experience. Like I said I am just learning and do not know the exact science or math but I am learning. (I did use water from my hose to fill my bucket to make the shot but it's well water with very little chlorine).

 

[xdxninjax]

So after watching a viedo on the theory and calculations of a silver cell it loos like I am doing things in the wrong steps to be the most efficient. It looks like I need to Precipitate the 90% silver down to solution and then cement out the silver. I then melt that to shot and use that to feed my silver cell.

With that said I still don't know what exactly happened to my cell to create the problem I am having now.

(My main goal is to take %90-%92 silver and make them into .999-.9999 crystals.)

Again thank you for your time.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I don't understand why people refine silver coins. They are self-assaying. Every buyer knows that old US coins are 90% silver. Once you refine them and melt the silver into an ingot, it becomes an unknown. A buyer will need to test it, and will probably offer less because of the risk of the unknown.

I understand refining other types of silver scrap like hollow ware that is so bulky, silver contacts that don't have a consistent make-up, etc. But coins are a known content, and you don't end up with anything significantly more compact for storage.

So for the time involved, the chemicals needed, cost of waste treatment and disposal, etc., I just don't see the benefit of refining coins.

Dave

 

[xdxninjax]

First full utmost respect to you because you know far more then I do. And thats is a great point. But I have friends with a bunch of coins that just go nowhere. If there is silver in there doesn't that alone give it importance? Yea if the cost of the processing is over what you are willing or able to spend you have a very valid point. I work with what I have available to me. So I don't just want to quit. I want to learn. I even went as far as building a exac hood in my garage/ shop. So with that being said I am going to continue to work with what I have and keep going.

I would still like to figure out what happened and what can I do to avoid it in the future.

Do I need to filter this unknown substance out and then cement the silver out? Or just leave it and start the cementing?

I did find brown (maybe burn spots from shorting) on my basket.

So from now on I will precipitate my durty silver into solution and cement the silver out before making shot to feed my cell.

 

[Gsracer]

What kind of coins where they? US? nickels?

 

[xdxninjax]

Washington quarters and Mercury dimes. About 10 oz.

 

[Gsracer]

cool, what silver are you using to make electrolyte, how much silver and how many liters?

You should also be refining your silver before you put it into the cell.

Source of water? I have had distilled water that was loaded with chlorine, crystal park brand water for example makes silver chloride when poured into silver nitrate.

Was the electroyte cloudy before?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

First full utmost respect to you because you know far more then I do. And thats is a great point. But I have friends with a bunch of coins that just go nowhere.

Would your friends sell the refined silver from the coins, or would they continue to hold it just as they are currently holding on to the coins?

If there is silver in there doesn't that alone give it importance? Yea if the cost of the processing is over what you are willing or able to spend you have a very valid point. I work with what I have available to me.

Yes, the silver content gives the coins value. But refining them doesn't increase their value.

It's not a matter of whether the cost of processing is more than you are willing or able to spend. It's whether the value of the refined silver can be increased enough to offset the costs. If you start with $100 worth of silver, and you spend $10 refining it, but the value of the refined silver is still $100, then you've lost $10 in the process.

So I don't just want to quit. I want to learn. I even went as far as building a exac hood in my garage/ shop. So with that being said I am going to continue to work with what I have and keep going.

I'm not saying you should quit. Using the example above, if you've gained $10 worth of knowledge while refining the coins, then you haven't lost anything. The knowledge will serve you well when you find other scrap that would benefit from being refined.

I would still like to figure out what happened and what can I do to avoid it in the future.

Those brown spots on you container are suspicious. To avoid shorts that can burn holes in your anode bag, you have to stay on top of the crystal growth. It becomes even more important on smaller cells. Knock the crystals down often.

Do I need to filter this unknown substance out and then cement the silver out? Or just leave it and start the cementing?

I can't tell from your first pictures if your electrolyte is cloudy and should be filtered and cemented, or if the contamination has simply settled on the crystal.

So from now on I will precipitate my durty silver into solution and cement the silver out before making shot to feed my cell.

I just run sterling directly in my cell. Dissolving it, cementing out on copper, and melting into shot or anodes will consume more nitric, copper, and fuel for the melting, increasing your refining costs. Running the silver directly in the cell will cause you to have to replace the electrolyte more frequently, but you save all the costs of dissolving, cementing, and melting.

Both approaches are valid. I always lean toward the frugal approach.

Dave

 

[butcher]

Are the crystals water-soluble? Silver nitrate is soluble, silver chloride is insoluble.

Are the crystals soluble in a dilute nitric acid? Silver nitrate is soluble in nitric silver chloride is not.


pH can change during electrolysis could be affecting the silver formations.

Did you incinerate the oils and scum off the silver coins before adding them to the cell, did you test or verify what alloys or other metals your adding to the cell's anode compartment?

 

[jmdlcar]

Washington quarters and Mercury dimes. About 10 oz.

If I had that much I would keep them as is or sell them and make more money. I have a lot of US silver coins from 1890 to 1963 and they are 10 cents, quarters, 50 cents and silver dollars worth more then what I have.

 

[xdxninjax]

cool, what silver are you using to make electrolyte, how much silver and how many liters?

You should also be refining your silver before you put it into the cell.

Source of water? I have had distilled water that was loaded with chlorine, crystal park brand water for example makes silver chloride when poured into silver nitrate.

Was the electroyte cloudy before?

I am using 150 grams of silver per liter.

The water was store bought Kroger.

And no the electrolyte was clear before.

 

[xdxninjax]

Are the crystals water-soluble? Silver nitrate is soluble, silver chloride is insoluble.

Are the crystals soluble in a dilute nitric acid? Silver nitrate is soluble in nitric silver chloride is not.


pH can change during electrolysis could be affecting the silver formations.

Did you incinerate the oils and scum off the silver coins before adding them to the cell, did you test or verify what alloys or other metals your adding to the cell's anode compartment?

I have not yet separated the unknown stuff. I pulled the basket and killed power waiting on more info to make a better decision. I will pull some out tonight.

I melted the coins down to shot before putting into the basket.

 

[xdxninjax]

First full utmost respect to you because you know far more then I do. And thats is a great point. But I have friends with a bunch of coins that just go nowhere.

Would your friends sell the refined silver from the coins, or would they continue to hold it just as they are currently holding on to the coins?

If there is silver in there doesn't that alone give it importance? Yea if the cost of the processing is over what you are willing or able to spend you have a very valid point. I work with what I have available to me.

Yes, the silver content gives the coins value. But refining them doesn't increase their value.

It's not a matter of whether the cost of processing is more than you are willing or able to spend. It's whether the value of the refined silver can be increased enough to offset the costs. If you start with $100 worth of silver, and you spend $10 refining it, but the value of the refined silver is still $100, then you've lost $10 in the process.

So I don't just want to quit. I want to learn. I even went as far as building a exac hood in my garage/ shop. So with that being said I am going to continue to work with what I have and keep going.

I'm not saying you should quit. Using the example above, if you've gained $10 worth of knowledge while refining the coins, then you haven't lost anything. The knowledge will serve you well when you find other scrap that would benefit from being refined.

I would still like to figure out what happened and what can I do to avoid it in the future.

Those brown spots on you container are suspicious. To avoid shorts that can burn holes in your anode bag, you have to stay on top of the crystal growth. It becomes even more important on smaller cells. Knock the crystals down often.

Do I need to filter this unknown substance out and then cement the silver out? Or just leave it and start the cementing?

I can't tell from your first pictures if your electrolyte is cloudy and should be filtered and cemented, or if the contamination has simply settled on the crystal.

So from now on I will precipitate my durty silver into solution and cement the silver out before making shot to feed my cell.

I just run sterling directly in my cell. Dissolving it, cementing out on copper, and melting into shot or anodes will consume more nitric, copper, and fuel for the melting, increasing your refining costs. Running the silver directly in the cell will cause you to have to replace the electrolyte more frequently, but you save all the costs of dissolving, cementing, and melting.

Both approaches are valid. I always lean toward the frugal approach.

Dave

All valid point that I will take into consideration when I am some much better then I am now. I expect to loose some money learning how to do this.

What is you source of silver that you use for your silver cell?