splashless bleach

[onewally]

I used hci+bleach to dissolve gold from fingers after doing ap, but i used splashless bleach the liqued tested for gold then i used smb(from beer refinery equipment seller) to drop the gold, when i was filtering i noticed some yellow looking gunk that fell when the heat was off but rise again when it was on, (wish my camera was working sorry no pics)im trying to figure out what the stuff was cause was yellow i ruled out silver cloride,from step 1 there was crap with fingers(soldermask,lil pieces of plastic,dust and mabe some dead bugs). I did get a couple grams drop not sure how much yet i started with about 5 grams but some was crap weighed the crap and it was about a gram. My reaction was slow not like the video, it took a couple a minutes before color started to change and for me to see the gold drop.

 

[butcher]

Did you test solution with stannous chloride?

Bleach is a basic solution (opposite of acids) acid and sodium hypochlorite (bleach) can form salts like NaCl table salt, and depending on circumstances can form sodium chlorates, you can also have other salts of metals involved, like lead chloride or silver chloride and copper I chloride.

Usually most of these will be more white than yellow, being yellow in your description makes me believe, you have something else going on, like having gold in solution and the solution is still yellow, or even overuse of SMB and something like possible sulfates involved, (I am not totally sure here) lead sulfate is also a possibility.

The stannous test will tell you if you have gold in solution (violet purple color), it can also give you an indication if you used too much SMB (a false brown color).

HCl will dissolve copper chloride, I do not think this is what you have, but adding a little HCl to these mystery yellow salts and seeing if the solution turns green will tell you if copper is involved.
(A little heating of the HCl here can also help to remove excess SMB or help with other processes below to determine what these salts are).

NaCl table salts will dissolve in cold water as will sodium chlorate.

If excess SMB it would also have been removed between the HCl and water washes.

Lead chloride will dissolve in boiling hot water, silver chloride will not dissolve, but let any fluffy silver settle before decanting the clear lead water while hot, when the clear lead chloride is put in another jar when cool it will form white needle like crystals of lead chloride.



Silver chloride will dissolve in household ammonia, this clear solution after decanting to another jar add HCl to acidify silver will precipitate as silver chloride white milk looking if only a little in solution and fluffy cottage cheese looking precipitant if much silver is involved.

Caution never let silver stay in an ammonium solution or dry, it is dangerous if dry, always make sure to precipitate the silver with acid and make the solution at least slightly acidic. (Ammonium chloride solution in this case with silver chloride as a precipitant white powder)

Lead sulfate will stay behind.
Gold would also stay behind as a brown powder if there were gold involved

 

[onewally]

i wish i had my camera going i did test with stannous cloride it took a lil time, but did come back purple i think that it took so long cause my stannous chloride is about a week old and there is no tin left. One thing i did find outa place was when i had the hci+sodium hypoclorite step going i was working on removing pins one of these pins found its way into that, it was pretty badly ate up but i removed it when i had seen it.(flying peices can easily take out an eye and u cant fix an eye once u break it its done so always wear eye protection no matter if its a chemical or mechanical process) I will mess with it after i get done with house work.

thanks butcher you have alot of chemistry knowlege,

 

[butcher]

onewally,
I have just been studying this a little longer than you have, If you keep doing your home work you will be teaching me the chemistry.

 

[onewally]

i did stuff that i got from plated jewlery used reg bleach seen the white fluffy stuff but it went away when i heated it it has now cooled and the white stuff didnt come back, so i dont know if it was conanination from a basemetal or side affect from the splashless formula. Im not going to use the splashless anymore, noticed a big differnce when adding the 2 diffrent bleaches the splashless doesnt fizz like the regular, and takes longer to dissolve the gold, the partical size was realy realy small took forever to settle, this whole process is long enough.

So for anyone that comes along and reads this at a later date use reg bleach not splashless.

Im getting ready to drop with smb, hope to have some pictures later to post(frankenstiened my camera with some old cellphone parts)

 

[onewally]

Heres the photo of refined gold dust settling and a batch of gold im dropping with smb at the moment. The glare makes it hard to see but its darker at the bottom then it is on top and this time went much faster then it did the last.

Now that I have used both bleachs, (i have only done this twice) cheap regular bleach is better then the splashless.

 

[AndyWilliams]

Heres the photo of refined gold dust settling and a batch of gold im dropping with smb at the moment. The glare makes it hard to see but its darker at the bottom then it is on top and this time went much faster then it did the last.

Now that I have used both bleachs, (i have only done this twice) cheap regular bleach is better then the splashless.

Did you use a toaster to take those pics?

 

[onewally]

lol no toster but microwave, cellphone, kiddie stroller and kitchen sink....actualy its a vivatar with a cellphone battery, it sucks but its better then nothing, though not by much

 

[onewally]

hehehehehe you can donate me a better camera if you want. Sorry the pictures are bad, but at the moment its the best one i got and its going be awhile before i get a better one. Im hopeing to get one soon though, for many reasons but one of the most important is to help me here when i have an issue pop up. When explaining an issue a picture can go along way, i have gotten help from several people and thanks to everyone on this forum and one day (friday) have buttons and mabe even be able to help others. Also i want to show everyone thats helped the product of my labor with their help, a super pretty button!

Thanks everyone!
(^ i think he has gold fever)

 

[butcher]

I cannot tell from the photo what color the gold powder is, it should be a light tan brown, use Harold's washing method to wash your gold, this will improve the gold’s quality (getting golf pure and shining in the help needed section).

I can see the liquid in the coffee pot it seems a bit murky but is not colored, that is a good sign you removed base metals well, did you do a stannous test on solution?

I can also tell you have been working hard to learn, and are doing good, keep up the good work and before you know it you can trade a little gold for a camera, I would donate you mycamera but yours is probably better than the one I have, then you would have two bad cameras, and I would be camera-less (I would not trade my gold for a camera, I am saving my gold to buy bread).

 

[onewally]

Thanks butcher, in the coffee pot is like a grey brown color kinda light looking, the other is a tan brown its wet i dont know if it will lighten any when it dries all the way. Not sure why the second has the hint of grey in it or why it went murky like that it did clear up it wasnt realy bad murky but i did notice it. I think i may have added to much smb, in both of them did better on the second mabe.

I did test with stannous and i test my solutions all the time I figure if the stuff is going to go bad anyway mite as well use it, and also it makes for good practice and helps me as i go along. If something goes wrong knowing that either i have gold in solution when i shouldnt or not haveing when it should. Both came up negitive for gold after i dropped.

I am going to start another batch after some more reading i want to get better so that means studying and practiceing. Once i get this method down (AP) then i will try AR, and reverse electroplating, i can see how i will need to know those ways for differnt kinds of scrap. I have done ewaste and plated jewelery,(wish i had more jewelery to do instead of ewaste) i got first peice of dental scrap i will need to do some rereading on that and get a couple more peices enough to do a small run.

I am also working on setting up to melt a button, i have seen it done with a torch a couple differnt ways, one was with oxygen+acetelyn torch and another way with mapp gas. Let me rephrase that, Im looking into differnt ways to melt a button, and being as i dont have anything for that step yet and very low on funds going to be looking into wich way is the cheapest. Then once i sell some gold i will be able to afford some better equipment.(well after i get cought up on rent)

 

[AndyWilliams]

hehehehehe you can donate me a better camera if you want. Sorry the pictures are bad, but at the moment its the best one i got and its going be awhile before i get a better one. Im hopeing to get one soon though, for many reasons but one of the most important is to help me here when i have an issue pop up. When explaining an issue a picture can go along way, i have gotten help from several people and thanks to everyone on this forum and one day (friday) have buttons and mabe even be able to help others. Also i want to show everyone thats helped the product of my labor with their help, a super pretty button!

Thanks everyone!
(^ i think he has gold fever)

I am in total agreement with you! Send me your address, I'll send you a digital camera I have that's just sitting here. You can use it as long as you need it, then just return to me. Your only cost will be shipping back! I think it will be important for you to be able to give these guys clear pics of your stuff, you're going to move quickly through new material and new processes.

 

[butcher]

AndyWilliams,
That is a very kind offer, I am sure you will be rewarded for your kindness.



onewally,
I just done a batch of dental gold and placer gold I have been collecting for many years, I was pleased with the results, The gold came out nice, and I am still working on recovering Platinum group, and getting the rest of my silver back from the process, the platinum group salts I will just save up until I get enough to fool with.

It took me many years to save up this little batch of gold, some of it I worked very hard to get panning in the cold rivers for long hours for tiny specks of gold, gold is hard to get (a rare metal) and seems there is no way around all of the hard work to get it, but one thing about it saving tiny bits of it no matter how long it takes is worth it, and then one day in the distant future you will be very pleased you saved up those tiny bits.

I like using an oxygen acetylene torch, but I have also used Mapp gas many times, Laser Steve sells melting dishes for around 3 dollars each, and a wonderful small fire brick furnace very cheap (if he still sells these), if not they are very easy to make with two light weight fire bricks which can be bought at Action mining in sandy Oregon, or some other place that cells refractory supplies, you can also use the mapp gas torch a small melting dish and some fiber wool ceramic blanket refractory material. The key to using the mapp gas is not letting every thing else take the heat away from the melt, you can set up a small melting furnace on a low budget, as you know where there is will there is a way, it may just take a lot of work to get that way.

 

[Auful]

AndyWilliams,
That is a very kind offer, I am sure you will be rewarded for your kindness.



onewally,
I just done a batch of dental gold and placer gold I have been collecting for many years, I was pleased with the results, The gold came out nice, and I am still working on recovering Platinum group, and getting the rest of my silver back from the process, the platinum group salts I will just save up until I get enough to fool with.

It took me many years to save up this little batch of gold, some of it I worked very hard to get panning in the cold rivers for long hours for tiny specks of gold, gold is hard to get (a rare metal) and seems there is no way around all of the hard work to get it, but one thing about it saving tiny bits of it no matter how long it takes is worth it, and then one day in the distant future you will be very pleased you saved up those tiny bits.

I like using an oxygen acetylene torch, but I have also used Mapp gas many times, Laser Steve sells melting dishes for around 3 dollars each, and a wonderful small fire brick furnace very cheap (if he still sells these), if not they are very easy to make with two light weight fire bricks which can be bought at Action mining in sandy Oregon, or some other place that cells refractory supplies, you can also use the mapp gas torch a small melting dish and some fiber wool ceramic blanket refractory material. The key to using the mapp gas is not letting every thing else take the heat away from the melt, you can set up a small melting furnace on a low budget, as you know where there is will there is a way, it may just take a lot of work to get that way.

Butcher,

Thanks for pointing out Action Mining; it is less than 30 minutes from me and I never knew it existed. I was looking for a source of firebricks. They cost only $6.50 according to their catalog. I will be making a trip there soon. Much appreciated!

 

[butcher]

You can pick up some HNO3 while your there, or other supplies you may need, it is a long drive for me, so I normally make it up there once a year.

I bought my Hoke's book from them (that little book has been worth every penny and more).

 

[Auful]

You can pick up some HNO3 while your there, or other supplies you may need, it is a long drive for me, so I normally make it up there once a year.

I bought my Hoke's book from them (that little book has been worth every penny and more).

They have good prices on some things for sure. I am going to have a shopping spree!

 

[butcher]

This is not an advertisement, but to let others know what we were discussing, and Just incase others may wish to use them for supplies.

http://www.actionmining.com/
http://www.actionmining.com/Catalog.pdf

The catalog is interesting even if you do not need anything.

Here is another dealer I like to use they also have a lot of good information here.
http://www.lacywest.com/

 

[kjt124]

Hi guys,

I wish I would have read this post before tonight, but...

I also used the splash-less bleach for an HCl/Cl (first timer). I was careful not to use the scented stuff the wife has by the laundry - no need for lemon gold methiniks.

Starting material was 700 mL of a 1% Potassium Aurocyanide Solution recovered with GSP's caustic-zinc method (done far, far away from house and home with ALL safety precautions in place - no kidding, no second chance...) outlined here:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6036

I believe anticipated recovery should be roughly 4 grams, but hopefully soon I will post some success story over on the gallery page, I saw some interesting info on the splash-less bleach here and some unanswered questions, as well, so I went looking. Here is a picture of what mine looks like (not yet off-gassed).



It will probably post at the bottom... not up on the workings of attachments and such yet. Yes, it is a cell phone, but I think it came out well enough to see the scummy bits at the top, at least.

I went searching for what this fluffy stuff might be and found this pretty quickly:

http://www.clorox.com/products/clorox-splashless-bleach/ingredients-and-safety/

Best I am coming up with is the Sodium Polyacrylate being the likely culprit. Perhaps the acid sucks off the Sodium ion, perhaps it doesn't, but I have done various things in the past with acrylic polymers in a mostly aqueous solution. They behaved much like this fluff from the splash-less bleach. They are nearly neutrally buoyant with water - all it takes is changing the temp to make them rise and fall. It's a bit like a Galileo thermometer.

My concern is that it sure looks like this stuff is going to be a P.I.T.A. to filter with a high risk of trapping values.

I will do a second leach on the muck with regular bleach later to see what is what.

Wish me luck

Off to re-read all about SMB and how to do it properly... I'll read my Bonide bottle and make sure I didn't get splash-less stump remover

Kevin

 

[butcher]

Bleach NaClO is naturally basic (usually containing sodium hydroxide NaOH as a byproduct), it is this alkaline solution that keep the chlorine in solution or in the bottle.

So when we mix bleach with HCl we will form salts, NaCl and some chlorate salt, this may or may not be what you are seeing, these are usually easy to let settle and filter solution, the salts can also rinsed to wash the yellow gold chloride on through the filter, most of the salts will be water soluble, unless they of course contain some other white salts such as lead, or silver chloride.

Sodium chloride is soluble in water even cold water, lead chloride normally is not soluble in water to much of any degree, but lead chloride very soluble in boiling hot water, and silver chloride is insoluble in hot or cold water, so this gives us a way to separate these salts from each other.

 

[kjt124]

The solution is filtered now and there is a good bit of sludge in the filter. I'll see if I can get a picture of it in a bit. Smearing a little around with my gloves on makes it pretty evident I am dealing with something from the polymer family and definitely not a salt. Unfortunately this 'polymer' is about the same yellow as the solution so obviously it is trapping some values (even after thorough washing).

Later on I will dump it in some distilled and boil a bit to see what happens to it. Fortunately it doesn't seem like any made it through the filter even after cooling to quite cold.

Either way this forum has certainly taught me your values are never lost unless you dump them. Patience leads to providence

Kevin