Taking it to a new level

[MMFJ]

We've been doing 'vintage' (5-30 yrs old) test, lab and medical equipment resale for years and it has been a nice way to not work extremely hard and still make a decent living. However, recently, we are seeing more and more people paying way more for the loads we typically have been picking up - often to the point that it is near impossible in my eyes to ever get their money out of the loads (can we call it the 'Fleabay effect?'). Whatever the 'reason', our source for good deals is drying up a bit and we are looking for other options.

To that end, we have contracted to begin taking in about 1500 lbs of metal and e-waste per week (5-6 gaylords, 300-400 lbs each). These will contain everything from computers to toasters to aluminum crutches to Christmas lights and more (any/every sort of e-waste - basically anything that will plug in....).

In preparing some signage for our new shop to put up over the empty gaylords (where all the sorted material will go), I put together these signs and thought someone else might benefit from them as well (I also welcome feedback from old-timers that might have some comments on what else to put on the list - certainly could use some input on the Li-Ion Batteries, we haven't had enough batteries to bother with and have been putting them all in one bucket so far). View attachment e-waste types and TITLES.ppt
These are intended to be used by any 'day-help' we might bring in as a guide to get our best return on the scrap sale so we want to keep them short, though informative enough to not have a large learning curve either! Note that all computer parts or other tear-down will be done by more experienced helpers - we already have bins for that.

 

[Patrick_R]

I deal mostly in E-waste. Everything done in my basement and sold when i have around 1000 lbs. I have a couple questions based on your ppt.

1. What do you pay for transformers? I usually get $0.35 or so per pound. (maybe keeping transformers separate would bet better?)

2. under gold tip connectors, you list 'PC power supply', which contain little to no gold, as its heavy board. As well as 'power cable ends' which are more than likely brass. Why do you list these two materials here?


As far as batteries. I too would love to know what to do with them. What are they worth and so on?

 

[MMFJ]

I deal mostly in E-waste. Everything done in my basement and sold when i have around 1000 lbs. I have a couple questions based on your ppt.

1. What do you pay for transformers? I usually get $0.35 or so per pound. (maybe keeping transformers separate would bet better?)

We are buying these loads on a per pound basis for whatever comes in them (e-waste and/or metals, such as crutches, etc.) - all 'junk' generated from a collection center, could be about anything, so we don't have a set price for anything.

Our current buyer calls transformers 'copper breakage', which goes along with motors and other things you can tell there is copper in there, but lots of other stuff as well. They pay $.15/lb for such breakage. We are, over the next few weeks, going to be interviewing other buyers to find out what they pay and how to better sort for maximum returns (each area of the country is different and each scrap buyer has their own ways as well, so check with your local folks!)

2. under gold tip connectors, you list 'PC power supply', which contain little to no gold, as its heavy board. As well as 'power cable ends' which are more than likely brass. Why do you list these two materials here?

Double-check that header, it has the 'instructions' of "cable ends that are gold plated", not "everything..." - if 'Computer power supply' caught your eye on that one, might as well ask why 'Printer' and 'Video Game' is on that page as well.....

Same is true for 'Power Cable End' - for some of them, at least (mostly from the equipment side of older technical gear, which we also deal with). The 'standard' ends get tossed in with the 'breakage' pile, while the cord part goes to the 'Dirty Wire' pile.

From this page, "GOLD TIP" is the primary keyword. I'll see if I can make that stand out a bit more to make sure it is as clear as possible.

As far as batteries. I too would love to know what to do with them. What are they worth and so on?

I'm sure looking for this outlet. "Ocean" (a member on here) buys Li-Ion batteries, though I would like to have a bulk disposal place for any type - I found one place online that will take them, but you pay shipping and get nothing but an empty shelf - hey, keeps them out of the landfill..... At any rate, you won't get much for batteries of any type - hardly worth separating/storing them, but don't throw them away! Having someone just pay the shipping is better than creating a mess at the landfill.

 

[Smack]

MMFJ, so your going to sort through the gaylords once they are full?

 

[MMFJ]

MMFJ, so your going to sort through the gaylords once they are full?

Yep, that's the plan......

Of course, it won't be ME doing all that work - I've got a helper that I'll pay a few bucks an hour to do most of it, once I get the flow going.

That's why I made those signs - we'll have a big table in the center of the room and sorting gaylords around the edge. Dump the full ('fresh') gaylords onto the table and start sorting......

With 5-6 gaylords a week coming in, there should be some good items here/there and lots (and LOTS) of scrap!

 

[Patrick_R]

I'm based in Toronto Ontario Canada. My options are somewhat few. However, I may be coming to you in future for some help with setting up a small scrapping operation elsewhere.

It is my dream to open a proper recycling facility in Asia. The Philippines to be specific. I have a trip planned there in little more than a month. I will build such a facility in phases. One of the end phases/goals is to buy scrap from China. I want to help clean up the toxic soup past generations have left there.

 

[Smack]

Where are the gaylords coming from? Are they yours that you have posted at different locations and then the customer calls you when they are full and you go get them?

The signs are for you at your sorting location right?

 

[MMFJ]

Where are the gaylords coming from? Are they yours that you have posted at different locations and then the customer calls you when they are full and you go get them?

The terms of our contract are not something I can discuss publicly, though we have have plans to begin taking in about 1500 lbs of metal and e-waste per week (5-6 gaylords, 300-400 lbs each) to start. If this works out as we expect, we have other places that are interested in us taking in even more (several pallets/gaylords from various locations around the country).

Any/all questions relating to "where are you getting it" cannot be addressed more directly at this time than to say we have gone to those with JUNK and found a need, which we are filling (really, that is the crux of it - exactly "where" it comes from it not important as you may/may not be able to duplicate in your area, just that it is filling a need that we went out and found).

Depending on the terms of the contract, some will be shipped to us, some we will have a 'route' to pick up - perhaps more than once per week (logistics are still pending in our contract so I have no details even if I could talk about it...). Right now, we are not interested in any "we'll call you when it is full" type customers - that indicates a small location that requires too much maintenance. Better to go after those that will have so much you can barely keep up with the flow!

The signs are for you at your sorting location right?

Yes. These signs are for our bins and gaylords as a way to keep track of everything that comes in and to stay focused on what is VALUABLE (i.e., paying the bills!). They are a 'work in progress' and will vary from what the local buyers are paying for and exactly what comes in. I'm just trying to get things set up before we start taking in loads, currently looking like sometime in March or April.

 

[silversaddle1]

How do you "dump" a gaylord? I can never seem to do it right without destroying the box. Any tips?

 

[silversaddle1]

- Copper Wire
- Transformer Wire
- Copper strips (computers/laptops/etc.)
- Copper heat sink
- Copper Tubing

There are three different grades of copper product listed on this sign? This is for your final sort?

 

[MMFJ]

How do you "dump" a gaylord? I can never seem to do it right without destroying the box. Any tips?

The INTENT is to use 3/4" wooden gaylords (my crating buddy tells me we can get all we want for free from one of the local moving companies that have a problem [always the thing to look for....] whereby they get these in and have to just break them down and scrap the wood. He says we should be able to pick them up in quantity, just have to time it right (which is why we are looking/asking now, several months prior to needing them....).

The expectation is that we can engineer it so that the side away from the forklift will be screwed on (perhaps also with a retaining strap - we'll have to see just how that works out....). We can remove some of the stuff from the top (which is part of the requirement when they pack it - put larger items on top, etc...) and then release the side to 'dump' (more of a 'controlled spill' hopefully!) out the rest.

Until we get the gaylords, I'm not sure what will have to be done, but I'm looking forward to getting a few in here soon so we can experiment a bit!

We can always go with the metal ones that you just twist over on the forklift (with the 180 degree fork attachment), but those don't come cheap! We are hoping to reinforce the wooden ones enough to have the scrap buyers just 'dump' our boxes, but that remains to be seen and we may just have to use the removable side there as well. Sometimes, necessity is the mother of invention, to be sure!

 

[Smack]

I'm not wanting to know where your getting your material from, I'm trying to understand how your operation is being set up, so I might give out advice accordingly. Then you can do with it as you wish, as it is free and may or may not apply to you and your buyers.

Not knowing about your local scrap yards I can only tell you something about what I know to be true in Michigan. A scrap yard is just another middle man, if you can find a mill for your material you will profit much more. My guess is you won't find a mill close. If you can, find out what minimum quantities are and what materials they take and the specs. on that material or the condition it has to be in for them to take it, because they are quite strict on foreign material being in it. Did you look at the pdf I put up in the learning section, books and other information on ISRI code of conduct? There is information not just in what I posted but the whole website that can help you to know about the people running the scrap yards and the material you are dealing with. Knowing what you have you will soon see how they like to take advantage of the unknowing. Like the difference in price from #1 copper to bare bright copper. Most yards won't even pay you for bare bright, they only want to pay you #1 on your bare bright. Try to find a scrap yard that is at least a member of the ISRI, and if you feel they are not paying you for what you have you can report them.

Now, on your labels and sorting gaylords. You should have 5 boxes just for the different grades of aluminum: 1-sheet, 2-cast, 3-extruded and 4-aluminum with steel, 5-aluminum wire. Copper: 1-insulated copper wire low recovery (this is usually stranded wire like from a power supply, 2-insulated heavy recovery wire (like solid core 12 gauge from buildings and heavey braided wire from power lines), you should get 35% on your low recovery and 80% on your heavy. Now printer cables and that sort of insulated wire will be less like 25% so keep it separate. Transformer and electric motor wire aka. copper windings are an export item and won't bring as much as they are coated with a varnish so don't mix it in with clean wire. You have to look close at the winding wire because some is aluminum. #3 copper wire is like hair, real fine. #2 copper can be clean copper like sheets of copper, plated copper, yes even a chunk of copper that is 1"x12x12" and 15 lbs is still #2 if it's plated, clean wire larger than hair but smaller than 12 gauge is #2. #1- anything clean and 12 gauge or bigger. Electric motors, transformers and anything of the type in one box as this is also an export item for regrind and it goes to China, mostly. Try to only handle the material once, any more than that will be a waste.

I think I'm going on a bit but the general idea is to know what you have and separate it so you can get paid for what it is and you will make more money that way.

Steve

 

[Smack]

How do you "dump" a gaylord? I can never seem to do it right without destroying the box. Any tips?

Silversaddle, they make forklifts that rotate to dump the pallets.

 

[MMFJ]

I'm not wanting to know where your getting your material from, I'm trying to understand how your operation is being set up, so I might give out advice accordingly. Then you can do with it as you wish, as it is free and may or may not apply to you and your buyers.

Not knowing about your local scrap yards I can only tell you something about what I know to be true in Michigan. A scrap yard is just another middle man, if you can find a mill for your material you will profit much more. My guess is you won't find a mill close. If you can, find out what minimum quantities are and what materials they take and the specs. on that material or the condition it has to be in for them to take it, because they are quite strict on foreign material being in it. Did you look at the pdf I put up in the learning section, books and other information on ISRI code of conduct? There is information not just in what I posted but the whole website that can help you to know about the people running the scrap yards and the material you are dealing with. Knowing what you have you will soon see how they like to take advantage of the unknowing. Like the difference in price from #1 copper to bare bright copper. Most yards won't even pay you for bare bright, they only want to pay you #1 on your bare bright. Try to find a scrap yard that is at least a member of the ISRI, and if you feel they are not paying you for what you have you can report them.

Now, on your labels and sorting gaylords. You should have 5 boxes just for the different grades of aluminum: 1-sheet, 2-cast, 3-extruded and 4-aluminum with steel, 5-aluminum wire. Copper: 1-insulated copper wire low recovery (this is usually stranded wire like from a power supply, 2-insulated heavy recovery wire (like solid core 12 gauge from buildings and heavey braided wire from power lines), you should get 35% on your low recovery and 80% on your heavy. Now printer cables and that sort of insulated wire will be less like 25% so keep it separate. Transformer and electric motor wire aka. copper windings are an export item and won't bring as much as they are coated with a varnish so don't mix it in with clean wire. You have to look close at the winding wire because some is aluminum. #3 copper wire is like hair, real fine. #2 copper can be clean copper like sheets of copper, plated copper, yes even a chunk of copper that is 1"x12x12" and 15 lbs is still #2 if it's plated, clean wire larger than hair but smaller than 12 gauge is #2. #1- anything clean and 12 gauge or bigger. Electric motors, transformers and anything of the type in one box as this is also an export item for regrind and it goes to China, mostly. Try to only handle the material once, any more than that will be a waste.

I think I'm going on a bit but the general idea is to know what you have and separate it so you can get paid for what it is and you will make more money that way.

Steve

Thanks a TON for this message. I had done some searching about different metals and such, but had not run into your ISRI code of conduct (now that I know about it, will be easy enough to find with a search). I'll go to that right away. Also, I'll digest your message a bit more and comment as appropriate. The only thing I can think of now is "Where will I put all those boxes????" We are only planning a 12' x 30' two-story (lift the full boxes upstairs to keep them out of the way until we can get to them through the week). We are looking for a single-story location, but at < $.50/sq. ft. with 'everything' included, that is pretty hard to beat for now!

Certainly, the buyer we have been using is not going into this detail with me. I even asked him point blank the other day if there was a place to find this stuff written down and he told me "you just have to learn it yourself" - well, with your suggestions, I'm doing just that and I think there will be a big surprise for him the next time I go there!

Thanks again, and I'm off to do some more reading!

 

[EDI Refining]

How do you "dump" a gaylord? I can never seem to do it right without destroying the box. Any tips?

Silversaddle, they make forklifts that rotate to dump the pallets.

Yes rotating forks and a custom built cage that the gaylord fits into and prevents from falling down.

Patrick_R - We are located in Orillia, Ontario - Feel free to give us a call, if you need a buyer for your scrap

 

[Smack]

Another one for a few boxes is brass: Red brass, yellow, hard, fixture brass (like plumbing stuff), rod brass, Ampco Bronze, these are all products of copper as I'm sure you knew. Look up how many different types of stainless there are, just about enough to make a feller mad :shock: and on top of that try to find out what grade sst you have without a xrf gun.



I think that's a record for me with 3 smiles.

 

[joem]

I deal mostly in E-waste. Everything done in my basement and sold when i have around 1000 lbs. I have a couple questions based on your ppt.

1. What do you pay for transformers? I usually get $0.35 or so per pound. (maybe keeping transformers separate would bet better?)

2. under gold tip connectors, you list 'PC power supply', which contain little to no gold, as its heavy board. As well as 'power cable ends' which are more than likely brass. Why do you list these two materials here?


As far as batteries. I too would love to know what to do with them. What are they worth and so on?

Hi Patrick; I'm in Ottawa, I am working on a recycler deal to sell my lith ion batteries from laptops. But I want a large load.
How many do you get a month?

 

[MMFJ]

Another one for a few boxes is brass: Red brass, yellow, hard, fixture brass (like plumbing stuff), rod brass, Ampco Bronze, these are all products of copper as I'm sure you knew. Look up how many different types of stainless there are, just about enough to make a feller mad :shock: and on top of that try to find out what grade sst you have without a xrf gun.

I think that's a record for me with 3 smiles.

Yeah, I'm still choking down that ISRI doc on all the different types - got about 20 pages in so far......

And, here I thought there was only three types of metal - magnetic, non-magnetic and PM! Guess I'm gonna have to get a bigger warehouse! Even at a shoebox for each type listed in that BOOK, it'll take several thousand square feet just to hold all the someday-to-be-filled boxes! :wink:

I think, though, that there must be a reasonable compromise - between the actual price difference a buyer will pay (only a few cents a ton or something...) and the reasonable-ness of keeping a separate box (as well as trying to train everyone...) for each possible type of metal - certainly when we may only acquire a few pieces of any particular type each month (or more). I'll keep reviewing that doc and these other tips, as well as talking with the local buyers (and looking out for who's buying from them!) to see what kind of 'mix' we come up with.

And, once we start getting product in, we'll still have a learning curve and some tweeks to do here/there, I'm sure. The 'good news' about it is that a large majority of the different metals discussed are from manufacturing leftovers, not consumer recycling efforts, so that should cut down the sorting quite a bit.

 

[Smack]

Yup, your learning already. I went a bit overboard on the different types of alloys but I wanted to jolt your brain a bit to get you to look at the pdf's. Now just make a list of what basic metals you will be getting in, in larger quantities and make those your gaylords and the rest like brass that takes a while to accumulate, you can use 55gal. plastic barrels.

A business note: Hold off on payroll as long as you can, not sure about NV. but in Michigan you can have 2 employee's and not set up payroll, just 1099 them at the end of the year, unless your set on paying cash....well, then uhhh just don't get caught.

 

[MMFJ]

Yup, your learning already. I went a bit overboard on the different types of alloys but I wanted to jolt your brain a bit to get you to look at the pdf's. Now just make a list of what basic metals you will be getting in, in larger quantities and make those your gaylords and the rest like brass that takes a while to accumulate, you can use 55gal. plastic barrels.

A business note: Hold off on payroll as long as you can, not sure about NV. but in Michigan you can have 2 employee's and not set up payroll, just 1099 them at the end of the year, unless your set on paying cash....well, then uhhh just don't get caught.

And here I was, just typing up a long answer to your last post - I was almost 'there' with the rows and rows of boxes! I will go ahead and post it, as I do have a couple questions in there that may be pertinent to others (and that I really would like to understand more about)

And, on the 1099 vs. "any other solution" - didn't know there was one!