OK I'll wet a sample and do this..
I didn't start any leaching to ensure everything was set in place, about 260 grams I think
Yes
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I'm amazed with what I see, there certainly are some small silicon dies, but I never milled it, so how did the mason jar shake break those? Though they're not much, but this "black" still seems to hold the bonding wires when I checked through a different technique.
Bowl in the first picture is how it currently looks and the rest are when water is added and now the carbon is kind of clearly more visible.
Bowl in the first picture is how it currently looks and the rest are when water is added and now the carbon is kind of clearly more visible.
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If there are visible bonding wires it is Carbon.
More heat, time and air needed
Alright. Should I follow it with flipping the hot charge into a cold water bucket to further destroy it by the resultant thermal shocking or that won't be necessary?
That should not be necessary, but it need enough heat and access to Oxygen and the time to let it ash completely.
Stirring is very beneficial.
Hi again,
Well I suspected that the blacks are only carbon but unfortunately they were not only that, but a whole bunch of magentics as well as the small silicon dies as pointed by you people earlier. My mistake and a non negligible one. Henceforth, I paid the price by not checking it with a magnet earlier and ended up spending an entire night panning and separating the heavy stuff from the lighter ones. Then further classified it as can be seen.
The top left one is the lighter material, the right hand bowl is the heavy material and the bottom petri dish contains the magnetics.
On the contrary my real question lies upon roasting it again. As per the first image, the left bowl was incinerated on a hot plate whereas the right one was done atop a coal burner with a running fan. The bottom of the charge holding vessel went red hot but the charge seemed no diffierent. I understand there may be small silicon dies but its not just those in it. Why wouldn't the ashes show any change as well? Are they supposed to go white? Or do they go grey as the oxidize? Which side does it really tip over to?
P.S. no roasting or incineration was done in these plastic containers
Thanks again for your time on this one.
Well I suspected that the blacks are only carbon but unfortunately they were not only that, but a whole bunch of magentics as well as the small silicon dies as pointed by you people earlier. My mistake and a non negligible one. Henceforth, I paid the price by not checking it with a magnet earlier and ended up spending an entire night panning and separating the heavy stuff from the lighter ones. Then further classified it as can be seen.
The top left one is the lighter material, the right hand bowl is the heavy material and the bottom petri dish contains the magnetics.
On the contrary my real question lies upon roasting it again. As per the first image, the left bowl was incinerated on a hot plate whereas the right one was done atop a coal burner with a running fan. The bottom of the charge holding vessel went red hot but the charge seemed no diffierent. I understand there may be small silicon dies but its not just those in it. Why wouldn't the ashes show any change as well? Are they supposed to go white? Or do they go grey as the oxidize? Which side does it really tip over to?
P.S. no roasting or incineration was done in these plastic containers
Thanks again for your time on this one.
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If you are looking to ash carbon it is best done in porcelain dishes or stainless steel trays at 500C.
The temperature is really important, I have always used an electric furnace to be sure of the temperature.
Lower temperatures eg 450C will either not fully ash or will need extended ashing times of over 24 hours.
The colour of the ash is dependant on the base metals present and is not a reliable indicator of ashing completeness.
If you have other materials present apart from carbon and thus cannot use colour to determine the ashing end point you will need to ash for at least 12 hours using a thin bed of 1 to 2 mm depth.
The usual problems occur when the material being ashed is in too thick a bed and either the full bed is not raised to 500C or the thickness of the bed is such that air access does not occur to all of the material.
If you desperately want to use a thick bed then you will need to rabble the bed every hour or two to get all of the carbon ashed, much easier to use more dishes with a lesser amount of material in each.
Deano
The temperature is really important, I have always used an electric furnace to be sure of the temperature.
Lower temperatures eg 450C will either not fully ash or will need extended ashing times of over 24 hours.
The colour of the ash is dependant on the base metals present and is not a reliable indicator of ashing completeness.
If you have other materials present apart from carbon and thus cannot use colour to determine the ashing end point you will need to ash for at least 12 hours using a thin bed of 1 to 2 mm depth.
The usual problems occur when the material being ashed is in too thick a bed and either the full bed is not raised to 500C or the thickness of the bed is such that air access does not occur to all of the material.
If you desperately want to use a thick bed then you will need to rabble the bed every hour or two to get all of the carbon ashed, much easier to use more dishes with a lesser amount of material in each.
Deano
kurtak
Well-known member
This is correct - in other words - besides small bits of silicon dies other "non-magnetic" base metals will be black after roasting which will give the "appearance" of carbon in the ash when in fact all the carbon has been converted to ash
Kurt
Wow! Thankyou for the insightful feedbacks
So as suggested, a steel tray with a thin bed atop a coal pit with a running fan would be my only way for now. Ill post pictures or videos of that too.
I probably mistook it for being an instant change as my vessel is a 3 mm stainless steel bowl that went red hot within minutes of the startup. That is when I thought that the charge should be no match for the heat. Ill give it a re-try when im feeling well again.
Also from what you have pointed out as per the bold print, how can we differentiate IF the job has really been done then? Checking it post HCL/Nitric treatments and pre AR is the only way?
I do have a couple of YT links on roasting for further questioning. Should be sharing those on here too.
Anyhow, much appreciate and many thanks for you guys' time once again
Sir I couldn't agree to this more.. in terms of accuracy and convenience. I will look forward to building my own in the near future too.
Given the time frame with relativity to the depth of the charge, this i'll have to figure out as at this point I don't have the freedom of incineration with an electric furnace.
So as suggested, a steel tray with a thin bed atop a coal pit with a running fan would be my only way for now. Ill post pictures or videos of that too.
I tried with a thin bed earlier too as I'd thought the same. But I didn't know the waiting period for a possible change was supposed to be some time at least.
I probably mistook it for being an instant change as my vessel is a 3 mm stainless steel bowl that went red hot within minutes of the startup. That is when I thought that the charge should be no match for the heat. Ill give it a re-try when im feeling well again.
I wouldn't mind either thickness as long as the job is done with correction to completeness with the best level of understanding and experience
Agreed sir. But at least, whatever is not base metal should have coverted to ashes for some visual satisfaction. Like I see and know, something is happening...
Also from what you have pointed out as per the bold print, how can we differentiate IF the job has really been done then? Checking it post HCL/Nitric treatments and pre AR is the only way?
I do have a couple of YT links on roasting for further questioning. Should be sharing those on here too.
Anyhow, much appreciate and many thanks for you guys' time once again
MH36
Member
I am thrilled you are posting the knowledge you have on the forum! I look forward to reading what posts you submit! I hope to possibly be able to find a solution to my difficult refining situation. The opportunity to possibly get the info and help I need in identifying what type of ore the gold I've found is locked in. I wish you could I could be an apprentice to you...hands on learning is better for me. Does the company your retiring from have any apprenticeship programs available?
He is in a different continent, but we'll see what he says.
MH36
Member
Aaaww....bummer...well maybe another approach should be the way I go about learning what I need to know to move my progress forward...
Hello again,
So I finally got a chance to carry out the process after two weeks of torrential downpour. As per my progress, the images are labeled, it took at least 3 hours into this. The charge was red hot as can be seen but to my dismay it stayed the same after the process as it was before. The image labeled 1 is the at the start (before roasting) and then it goes on from there. I hope these images do justice, but now I seek some suggestions. Although the result seems depressive, should I just carry on with the chemical processes from here on out?
So I finally got a chance to carry out the process after two weeks of torrential downpour. As per my progress, the images are labeled, it took at least 3 hours into this. The charge was red hot as can be seen but to my dismay it stayed the same after the process as it was before. The image labeled 1 is the at the start (before roasting) and then it goes on from there. I hope these images do justice, but now I seek some suggestions. Although the result seems depressive, should I just carry on with the chemical processes from here on out?
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I for one can not give any information from such images alone.
Having your material red hot as per your photos ensures that there will be losses due to volatilisation.
Once you are at 500C there is no advantage in higher temperatures, indeed quite the opposite.
If you really want to do your ashing as per the photos then get a temperature gun to see what the temperature really is.
You are looking for 500C for several hours, having red hot material does not mean that air access is complete for the ashing stage.
With sand type material you will need to rabble at least every half hour.
Rabbling is always required when treating sandy material where the bed depth is greater than 3 grains of the sand.
Deano
Once you are at 500C there is no advantage in higher temperatures, indeed quite the opposite.
If you really want to do your ashing as per the photos then get a temperature gun to see what the temperature really is.
You are looking for 500C for several hours, having red hot material does not mean that air access is complete for the ashing stage.
With sand type material you will need to rabble at least every half hour.
Rabbling is always required when treating sandy material where the bed depth is greater than 3 grains of the sand.
Deano
Alright, Ill bear in mind these pointers. Hopefully get a pyrometer then proceed.
Ill have this batch undergo the acid process for now. Ive got more material, hopefully recover something and improve my budget for the meter and get a better process underway for the next batch.
Many thanks for your time again
This I hadn't known is also possible with solid material. I'd Only known it was possible in atomic form or when its in the smelting process where temperatures are really high to make it possible.
Ill have this batch undergo the acid process for now. Ive got more material, hopefully recover something and improve my budget for the meter and get a better process underway for the next batch.
Many thanks for your time again
Hi Deano, When I use the Chlorine/ HCL leach I keep the Solution cold with Ice , I do not get any Chlorine gass off and gold leaching is much quicker than usual. I use activated carbon to collect the gold out of the acid then I ash the Activated carbonin an oven at 600 deg. centigrade, collect the Gold and melt it into a button
I find that the carbon rod flakes off, this contaminated my solution
Some dealers who sell carbon products have what is known as electrode grade carbon available in rods and sheets.
It costs more than standard carbon products and is not often requested due to price.
If I am doing electrowinning I usually set up with an anode which is titanium coated with platinum group mixed oxides, for chloride solutions these are usually iridium oxide with a small amount of proprietary other oxides.
These electrodes are expensive but are really worth having if you are treating regular quantities of product.
Direct smelting of carbon ash almost guarantees that you will have large losses of gold, digesting the ash in aqua regia is a much better processing route.
Deano
It costs more than standard carbon products and is not often requested due to price.
If I am doing electrowinning I usually set up with an anode which is titanium coated with platinum group mixed oxides, for chloride solutions these are usually iridium oxide with a small amount of proprietary other oxides.
These electrodes are expensive but are really worth having if you are treating regular quantities of product.
Direct smelting of carbon ash almost guarantees that you will have large losses of gold, digesting the ash in aqua regia is a much better processing route.
Deano
