tin powder
- Thread starter pat1
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Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
sorry to be a wet blanket,,but your smb soulution in the video is a mixture of water and smb correct?.
after adding smb soulution..i guess it must be fighting the clorox..cause after reboiling/evaporating my high priced weed killer and going threw the prossess again,it is not wanting to drop...ill keep pluggin away
after adding smb soulution..i guess it must be fighting the clorox..cause after reboiling/evaporating my high priced weed killer and going threw the prossess again,it is not wanting to drop...ill keep pluggin away
lazersteve said:
Pat,
Fill in the blanks for us a bit. You started with a colloidal gold solution. Did you reduce to syrup, boil in HCL, dilute, decant? If so, what color was the solution,(did you get rid of the purple)? What did you do then, HCL/CL?
K
Fill in the blanks for us a bit. You started with a colloidal gold solution. Did you reduce to syrup, boil in HCL, dilute, decant? If so, what color was the solution,(did you get rid of the purple)? What did you do then, HCL/CL?
K
lazersteve
Well-known member
Pat,
After dehydrating don't repeat the AP process. Instead add straight HCl and filter out the residue. You end up with a liquid portion and a solid portion.
Test the liquid portion to be certain it does not contain gold using a cotton swab and stannous chloride.
Dissolve the solid portion using AR or HCl-Cl. Once the solids dissolve and the oxidizer is removed, filter out any sediment, and add SMB.
Steve.
After dehydrating don't repeat the AP process. Instead add straight HCl and filter out the residue. You end up with a liquid portion and a solid portion.
Test the liquid portion to be certain it does not contain gold using a cotton swab and stannous chloride.
Dissolve the solid portion using AR or HCl-Cl. Once the solids dissolve and the oxidizer is removed, filter out any sediment, and add SMB.
Steve.
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It's important that you actually read and FOLLOW the process I outlined.pat1 said:
By evaporating to a syrup, what you did was concentrate the solution you had, which had colloidal particles of gold suspended. You then would boil the remaining solution with HCl (which would keep in solution things you want to eliminate, and, hopefully, give cause for the colloidal gold to agglomerate, which it appears to have done). Only after rinsing the remaining solids would you start the process over.
As it stands, you had no gold in solution-----that was precipitated by the stannous chloride you wrongfully introduced, precipitating all of the values as the gold colloid in question. You must now get the gold back in solution, but without the presence of the tin, which renders the solution difficult, if not impossible, to filter.
Please follow the instructions you were given-----and don't get free spirited and creative, repeating the same mistakes over and over. I strongly advise against getting creative until you have a firm understanding of the process of refining, so you can make decisions that are constructive.
Harold
i apologise i made a mistake in my wording,,,yes after dehydrating i did use hcl-cl instead of ap and then filtered..
problen was when i added the smb it went from a nice yellow to a green,so i am boiling that off again and i am finding that i added way to much of the smb...i have 'lots o sodium"..i do apologise to harold for seeming to be getting...um how do i say it "experimental?" its just it does take time to reply and answer so i read and try...and try and read,i mean no dissrespect for your input...its rather just the opposit i rather value your input.
i would rather learn,,and putz with one batch than mess all of them up,..thats why i havent started te other batches of fingers i have ready to go.
pat
problen was when i added the smb it went from a nice yellow to a green,so i am boiling that off again and i am finding that i added way to much of the smb...i have 'lots o sodium"..i do apologise to harold for seeming to be getting...um how do i say it "experimental?" its just it does take time to reply and answer so i read and try...and try and read,i mean no dissrespect for your input...its rather just the opposit i rather value your input.
i would rather learn,,and putz with one batch than mess all of them up,..thats why i havent started te other batches of fingers i have ready to go.
pat
lazersteve said:
lazersteve
Well-known member
After dehydrating you need to wash the dehydrated material with HCl (muriatic acid only!) to remove any acid soluble impurities. After washing filter out the solids and them process them for values. Test the wash liquid for values with stannous.
The acid wash is to remove the garbage. If you immediately use HCl-Cl after dehydrating you are messing up the process all over again.
Re-read my post you quoted and you should see you are not following my directions, but instead are redissolving everything again before the cleaning step.
Steve
The acid wash is to remove the garbage. If you immediately use HCl-Cl after dehydrating you are messing up the process all over again.
Re-read my post you quoted and you should see you are not following my directions, but instead are redissolving everything again before the cleaning step.
Steve
qst42know
Well-known member
pat1
I don't want to distract you from following the experts directions exactly however your post mentions a few fingers.
How many do you consider a few?
I don't want to distract you from following the experts directions exactly however your post mentions a few fingers.
How many do you consider a few?
thanks for all the help
but im going to leave that stuff sit...later on i wil deal with it ,,,its not going anywhere
it wasent many fingers..mabey 50 or so
when i have more time i will try the whole prossess again...and this time i am a lil wiser
i will be sure to say hey to you all
thanks pat 1
but im going to leave that stuff sit...later on i wil deal with it ,,,its not going anywhere
it wasent many fingers..mabey 50 or so
when i have more time i will try the whole prossess again...and this time i am a lil wiser
i will be sure to say hey to you all
thanks pat 1
iqst42know said:
I have dealt with solutions of lead, tin, silver, and gold.in chloride solution.
the tin in large excess is a buggar. making filtering almost impossible.
(by the way aluminum is another nightmare)
here is one way I dealt with it.
let sit for few days, decant what solution you can, filter this if possible (if not boil to syrup- cool decant then try filtering), seperating liquid from solids.
solids rinse and incenerate insolubles,(my goal is to rid as much tin and wash salts of as much acid as possible) do not breath any fumes, test liquids for value with stannous.
after good roast add HCL boil good stirring, add copper bar to help cement out values, boiling to thick mud,add more Hcl,cool let sit till as much as possible settles(couple days), decant filter liquid, depending on the troublesome tin content this may take a few go rounds to get the bulk of tin, when HCL has rid most of tin,then filtering is easier. a boil in water and same thing cool settle decant
now we have lead silver copper and gold (some metals higher in the series),
acid peroxide will get the bulk of copper, ( caution on oxidizer our goal is only copper now)decanting ,leaving Gold, lead and silver.
wash powder, add water get good rolling boil stirring well to get lead chloride slightly soluble, lower heat below boil but still hot as possible (slight bubble from barely boil ok, the idea is to let silver chloride settle with the gold and keep the lead chloride hot enough to stay soluble, and sometimes it takes silver chloride a while to settle,we will suction bulb decant off the lead chloride to a jar to cool and settle as white to gray powder.(some silver can be removed with ammonia washes but do not dry out can be dangerous explosively acidify with Hcl-for ammonium chloride and silver.
these processes may take more than one treatment depending on metal contents.
example three boiling washes to rid lead.
Now to get the gold and silver, can be dissloved now with HCL and bleach if these metals are clean enough some silver or if pgms may stay as powder with any non metals, but with boiling you can get bulk of silver and Pgms to dissolve although all may not. now I let sit over night, decant and boil down a little the next to rid oxidizers, then with water dilutions and table salt if nessasary to remove silver another night settling before decanting, then precipitate gold with sodium sulfite or your choice, another night settle before decanting, if light brown powder use harolds wash to clean up but if darker brown redisolve after washing to reprocess till light brown. if platinum will need to concentrate solution and get platinum with ammonium chloride.
hope this helps and I didnt leave something out.
keep tin or aluminum out of the soup if possible( unless you like trouble and work).
the tin in large excess is a buggar. making filtering almost impossible.
(by the way aluminum is another nightmare)
here is one way I dealt with it.
let sit for few days, decant what solution you can, filter this if possible (if not boil to syrup- cool decant then try filtering), seperating liquid from solids.
solids rinse and incenerate insolubles,(my goal is to rid as much tin and wash salts of as much acid as possible) do not breath any fumes, test liquids for value with stannous.
after good roast add HCL boil good stirring, add copper bar to help cement out values, boiling to thick mud,add more Hcl,cool let sit till as much as possible settles(couple days), decant filter liquid, depending on the troublesome tin content this may take a few go rounds to get the bulk of tin, when HCL has rid most of tin,then filtering is easier. a boil in water and same thing cool settle decant
now we have lead silver copper and gold (some metals higher in the series),
acid peroxide will get the bulk of copper, ( caution on oxidizer our goal is only copper now)decanting ,leaving Gold, lead and silver.
wash powder, add water get good rolling boil stirring well to get lead chloride slightly soluble, lower heat below boil but still hot as possible (slight bubble from barely boil ok, the idea is to let silver chloride settle with the gold and keep the lead chloride hot enough to stay soluble, and sometimes it takes silver chloride a while to settle,we will suction bulb decant off the lead chloride to a jar to cool and settle as white to gray powder.(some silver can be removed with ammonia washes but do not dry out can be dangerous explosively acidify with Hcl-for ammonium chloride and silver.
these processes may take more than one treatment depending on metal contents.
example three boiling washes to rid lead.
Now to get the gold and silver, can be dissloved now with HCL and bleach if these metals are clean enough some silver or if pgms may stay as powder with any non metals, but with boiling you can get bulk of silver and Pgms to dissolve although all may not. now I let sit over night, decant and boil down a little the next to rid oxidizers, then with water dilutions and table salt if nessasary to remove silver another night settling before decanting, then precipitate gold with sodium sulfite or your choice, another night settle before decanting, if light brown powder use harolds wash to clean up but if darker brown redisolve after washing to reprocess till light brown. if platinum will need to concentrate solution and get platinum with ammonium chloride.
hope this helps and I didnt leave something out.
keep tin or aluminum out of the soup if possible( unless you like trouble and work).
Acid_Bath76
Well-known member
g_axelsson said:
Just curious, I'm still in the early stages of reading HOKE, but why not just take your mix of gold and other base metals and melt them in a furnace along with a good flux. The flux should draw a lot of the impurities off and leave you with a "sort of clean" bit of gold. At that point you would have a known quantity, more or less, and could devise a better plan of attack. Just a thought. If I'm incorrect, or overlooking something, please let me know. I'm learning something everyday on this forum and through my reading, and it seems like I just end up with more questions too!
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I'm not sure where you got that idea, but it's as wrong as one can get. There is no reason for flux to draw off base metals---and it doesn't. In fact, it has the exact reverse action---it permits metals to combine. What it does is absorb oxides of base metals. Any base metal that is not oxidized will remain with the gold.Acid_Bath76 said:
Once alloyed, most elements are separated only with considerable difficulty. That includes the idea of stratification. Only under unusual circumstances can you separate one metal from another by gravity.
Harold
